Scot Dutchy wrote:Let him step outside on the way to the ISS he would know once and for all what space is.
From exchanges I've had with some CT'ers I suspect they would be in denial to the last breath. Trying to work out if it's mind control, CGI, secret vacuum chambers under Cheyenne mountain, Area 51 alien anti-grav, and repeating to themselves "don't "drink the cool aid".
Regarding the lack of shadow cast on Earth by the Moon: aside from the obvious (there was no solar eclipse in July) what no one seems to have mentioned is that these images were taken almost a full day after the new moon. The new moon was at 9:24 PM on July 15 (EDT), and these images were captured between 3:50 and 8:45 PM on July 16. This also explains why the Earth and Moon are both slightly shaded on the right edge; DISCOVR was actually about 11 degrees to the right (from the camera's point of view) of a line drawn from the Sun to the Earth. (According to Wikipedia, DISCOVR orbits the L1 Lagrangian point with an angle between 4 and 15 degrees from the Sun as viewed from Earth).
newolder wrote:I agree, it's tricky for amateurs to convince hard-liners but get to the height of e.g. the International Space Station and all (flat-earth) doubts are dispelled.
I think that trying to look down on the Earth from a height to prove the flatness of the Earth's surface shows a lack of imagination on the part of the FErs. What they should do is mount an expedition to the literal end of the world and bring back conclusive evidence of it's edge. Better still, multiple expeditions from the same start point, all employing simple triangulation from geographical features to ensure that they all travel away from each other. The Math can't lie, surely? Perhaps a live documentary account of the great ocean wall and the actual pattern on the back of the giant turtle on which the Earth rests is all that is needed to convince the denier, the sceptic, and the FEr alike.
"No-one is exempt from speaking nonsense – the only misfortune is to do it solemnly." Michel de Montaigne, Essais, 1580
Yes, take two people and get them to travel away from each other and see if they meet again.
You can trivially observe that the water surface is curved any time you are on an ocean or a sufficiently large lake.
I remember going to some research place on a school outing when I was a kid, somewhere in London they did research on waves/boats and shit, and the tank they had (in the sixties!) was long enough to see the curvature.
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
All flat earther's are NASA deniers, but not all NASA deniers are flat earthers. NASA denial used to be a simple paranoid conspiracy theory - e.g. the moon was a real thing, just as commonly described by science, but the Apollo missions to the moon were faked. That sort of thing is still around, but the most outspoken NASA deniers these days are the flat earthers. Space travel is not only faked, it's impossible. It's all a part of the Grand Conspiracy of LIes.
NASA deniers, almost 100% of them flat earthers, have organized themselves via social media into flash mobs, and they are now "truth bombing" official NASA videos.
The comments sections to several NASA videos have been shut down after hundreds of negative comments charging fraud were posted.
The guy in this video from Oct 5 is not the leader of this movement. There is no leader. It's a cyber flash mob organized on social media. (Go to 1:10 to save time.)
From the comments section of this video:
Michelle Johnson I'd like to invite you [the author of this video] to join us and even be an official sponsor of our October 18 (this Sunday) media blitz. We will ply the media news websites, FB pages, the NASA website, any news story about NASA, space, et. with our videos, questions about the globe theory, and the systems created to support that nonsense, FE proofs, diagrams, etc. If Tyson, Sagan, Cox et all have FB pages and/or websites, we will blitz them too. Mark Sargent will be an official sponsor and is announcing on his show tonight. I am also asking Jeranism, Stargods and The Morgile [leading YT flat earther] to be official sponsors of this campaign, and to promote, announce or make videos to announce their involvement and sponsorship. This is also an invitation to any other video makers, radio shows, bloggers, and general FE proponents, to please join us and share this so we get lots of support and participation. Let's make this spread like wildfire and get our FE armchair warriors engaged in pushing this into the mainstream. Thanks!
Z.W. Wolf wrote:If I have this right, the Moon only traveled in an arc of 2.69 degrees during the entire video. Less if you only count the time in which the whole Moon is in view.
Even if the Moon is approaching or retreating from the camera the whole time, that's a total difference of 2.69 degrees: a small amount of the total orbit. (If it was advancing and retreating, as the author said, it would only be a total difference of 1.35 degrees.) It's beyond my math to calculate the total difference in apparent size. Maybe someone will do that math. In the meantime, here's a protractor. How much of a difference would movement along a 2.69 degree arc make in apparent size
I'm not shore if anyone has yet to do this but just wanted to anyways.
The moon is at 1209488.5 km, half the distance it traveled is 18,107.10 km.
so now we have 2 legs of a right triangle. A2+B2=C2
So the square root of 1209488.5 km2-18,107.10 km2 is 1209352.95 km.
subtract 1209352.95 km from 1209488.5 km and you get 135.55 km difference in the distance. or 0.0112%. Or 1 part in ~10,000 or about half a pixel on an 5120×2880 27" Retina 5K Display.
It's actually a little more complicated than this, since the moon is in an elliptical orbit. I'm quite confident that the moon is moving toward the camera the entire time, but I'm not sure exactly how much. The moon was at perigee on July 5 18:55 (UTC), and at apogee on July 21 at 11:03; these photos were taken on July 16, so the moon was moving away from the Earth, hence toward the DISCOVR satellite. I sketched it up in CAD, and I think I had estimated that the moon was about 500 km closer to the camera at the end of the animation than at the start, but I wasn't terribly confident on the exact distances. (I didn't think it was worth trying to find out the moon's exact orbit in order to beat to death what is pretty much a moot point...I think we all agree that there should be no detectable difference in the apparent size of the moon for the duration of the animation).
RDV wrote:It's actually a little more complicated than this, since the moon is in an elliptical orbit. I'm quite confident that the moon is moving toward the camera the entire time, but I'm not sure exactly how much. The moon was at perigee on July 5 18:55 (UTC), and at apogee on July 21 at 11:03; these photos were taken on July 16, so the moon was moving away from the Earth, hence toward the DISCOVR satellite. I sketched it up in CAD, and I think I had estimated that the moon was about 500 km closer to the camera at the end of the animation than at the start, but I wasn't terribly confident on the exact distances. (I didn't think it was worth trying to find out the moon's exact orbit in order to beat to death what is pretty much a moot point...I think we all agree that there should be no detectable difference in the apparent size of the moon for the duration of the animation).
You are right. Given that we are withing an order of magnitude of each other and we are talking about less then .1% it is pretty well a moot point. It comes down to if you have a big computer monitor with a really high resolution and you zoom to the point where the moon is as large as possible without being unable to see the entire equator you may or may not see a single pixel difference.