New 2020 Election Documentary

Seabass · **#61** by **Seabass** » May 10, 2022 2:35 am

Spearthrower wrote:
Did you just get suspended from Rationalia?

He's ALWAYS suspended from Rationalia, one of the most difficult places on the internet to get suspended from.

Spearthrower · **#62** by **Spearthrower** » May 10, 2022 2:36 am

Tell us the one about how you want a serious discussion about a movie you're too lazy and apathetic to watch? But still want to use that movie's mere existence to trot out vapid prejudice against the membership here, for no apparent reason other than because you get kicks out of it? Silly, silly little man.

And yeah, when you want to get 'serious' then your hand-wringing about reviewing evidence is waiting for you to practice what you preach with respect to Trump blatantly attempting to magic into existence votes for him in order to swing the state and election - you know, hard empirical evidence you suddenly seem so coy about noticing.

Seabass · **#63** by **Seabass** » May 10, 2022 2:37 am

Dammit, now this thread is in my "Your posts" list. Son of a bitch! Never let your guard down, or this happens! :lay:

Pudendum · **#64** by **Pudendum** » May 10, 2022 2:38 am

Spearthrower wrote:
Pudendum wrote:
I'm basing my assessment of you on the posts you have made to me here.

Sorry, going to have to stop you there.

Sorry, Kitt'n, I'm not following your trolling anywhere.

Here is another 'You', for your low-energy trolling. I should advise you though, if you keep posting only off-topic trolling, I'll stop answering. If you like being ignored, then great!

Spearthrower · **#65** by **Spearthrower** » May 10, 2022 2:40 am

I could not care less whether you reply or not - it's not like you have anything worth listening to anyway. As if anyone wants to hear you vacantly rehearsing your prejudice against complete strangers on the internet.

Spearthrower · **#66** by **Spearthrower** » May 10, 2022 2:40 am

Seabass wrote:Dammit, now this thread is in my "Your posts" list. Son of a bitch! Never let your guard down, or this happens!

Stay abreast and up to date with the 'I'm not trolling: you are' live, in real time, as it happens!

Pudendum · **#67** by **Pudendum** » May 10, 2022 2:51 am

Spearthrower wrote:
Seabass wrote:Dammit, now this thread is in my "Your posts" list. Son of a bitch! Never let your guard down, or this happens!

Stay abreast and up to date with the 'I'm not trolling: you are' live, in real time, as it happens!

Since you find writing to me so enticing...

Here is your 'You'. Maybe you aren't trolling, and this is your best effort at contributing. I believe in inclusion!

Back to the topic at hand, I considered the comment about the difference between the CDC-used bt data (for distancing) and the cell data the TTV team claims to have purchased and used. That might show a slightly different location resolution (the bt type of data) but in my experience, the gps data is pretty damned good on most devices. Plenty of people out there find it accurate enough to find geocaches, even micro-caches. So it seems a bit odd that the data purchased by TTV wouldn't have the accuracy needed to track what they said they tracked.

Maybe by the time I get to the end of the thing, it'll be clearer. If I don't get it watching piecemeal, as I have been, I'll try to make time to watch it through, but I suspect the question raised won't be critical in any case.

Spearthrower · **#68** by **Spearthrower** » May 10, 2022 3:08 am

It's been published as a film because it's pure theatre and can't stand up to scrutiny in any credible arena. They can't show this in court where it would be actively scrutinized - instead it's published as a kind of chick tract to maintain the alternate reality for the believers.

Pudendum · **#69** by **Pudendum** » May 10, 2022 3:14 am

Spearthrower wrote:It's been published as a film because it's pure theatre and can't stand up to scrutiny in any credible arena. They can't show this in court where it would be actively scrutinized - instead it's published as a kind of chick tract to maintain the alternate reality for the believers.

Finally getting on-topic!

I think you are right. I think the 'court of public opinion' is more important to them than others. The public opinion is what twitter invests in manipulating (along with many corporate media allies) so it is clearly important.

As to whether it is an 'alternate reality', we shall see. I think they have been quite convincing (so far) and the best lefty criticisms of it don't really do that well. For example, I believe Viva Frei (youtuber/podcaster) over anything offered here. Of course, he seems to have seen some of it, so his opinions come off as informed.

I'm waiting to hear more analysis by others. Righties and Lefties will have different types, and the predictable shit-flinging both will do is worth considering.

For example, when people criticize DeSouza for donating too much, I think of how many other oligarchs have chucked in more money, and have to wonder if it is because he over-donated to the wrong party...another way to look at it is that while I accept criticisms of him for his donor-past, I weigh it against Zuckerberg, MSNBC and the twitter ownership, all donating (cash or in-kind) to the Democrats.

Spearthrower · **#70** by **Spearthrower** » May 10, 2022 3:25 am

None of this lends a jot of credibility to the on-going fantasy, yet there's an actual recording of Trump trying to pressure a secretary of state to 'find' more votes to let Trump win, and yet this actual authentic evidence seems less interesting that what a well known far-right conspiracy theorist claims in a film. Priorities ain't what they used to be.

Pudendum · **#71** by **Pudendum** » May 10, 2022 3:30 am

Spearthrower wrote:None of this lends a jot of credibility to the on-going fantasy, yet there's an actual recording of Trump trying to pressure a secretary of state to 'find' more votes to let Trump win, and yet this actual authentic evidence seems less interesting that what a well known far-right conspiracy theorist claims in a film. Priorities ain't what they used to be.

I've considered both sides of that, too. I don't believe you have.

If you want to convince me that you are believable on that (or Trump in general) just tell me which false media smears you didn't fall for.

There were so many, it should be easy for you to list a few. Unless you fell for all of them uncritically, of course...

Or if it is dangerous to do so, in this forum. It could be, lots of 'very fine people' love to hate more than they love anything else.

Spearthrower · **#72** by **Spearthrower** » May 10, 2022 3:57 am

Pudendum wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:None of this lends a jot of credibility to the on-going fantasy, yet there's an actual recording of Trump trying to pressure a secretary of state to 'find' more votes to let Trump win, and yet this actual authentic evidence seems less interesting that what a well known far-right conspiracy theorist claims in a film. Priorities ain't what they used to be.

I've considered both sides of that, too. I don't believe you have.

You don't believe I have because of those prejudices you've come here to rehearse.

In reality, of course, you know fuck all about me - your confidence is derived from your navel, not from the real world.

Pudendum wrote:If you want to convince me that you are believable on that (or Trump in general) just tell me which false media smears you didn't fall for.

You think I want to convince you?

Fuck me, chap - which bit of me not taking you at all seriously don't you grasp? You're the most obvious troll I've ever encountered - it's like you're too cocky to even try and be subtle about your trolling - when you got banned from everywhere else, did you never once think 'It's because of me, isn't it?'

Pudendum wrote:Or if it is dangerous to do so, in this forum. It could be, lots of 'very fine people' love to hate more than they love anything else.

Go away, no one is impressed by nor unaware of what you're doing - it's dopey.

Spearthrower · **#73** by **Spearthrower** » May 10, 2022 4:01 am

Spearthrower wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2% ... phone_call

On January 2, 2021, during an hour-long conference call, then-U.S. President Donald Trump pressured Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to change the state's vote totals from the 2020 presidential election. Trump had been defeated by Joe Biden in the election, but refused to accept the outcome[1] and made a months-long effort to overturn the results. Prior to the call to Raffensperger, Trump spoke repeatedly to state and local officials in at least three states in which he had lost, urging them to recount votes, throw out some ballots, or replace the Democratic slate of electors with a Republican slate.

...

On January 11, the phone call was cited in the article of impeachment in the second impeachment of Donald Trump introduced in the House of Representatives.[9] Raffensperger's office opened a fact-finding and administrative investigation of potential election interference regarding Trump's efforts to overturn the results in Georgia, and Fulton County prosecutors opened a criminal investigation in February.[10][11]

Pudendum wrote:And how the heck could it be that a site calling itself 'rational' has a totally unified political position against any evidence of election fraud, in one particular election? It's almost as if somehow there is a thumb on the scale...

Morton's Safe Space wrote:Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Morton%27s_demon

Pudendum · **#74** by **Pudendum** » May 10, 2022 4:41 am

Spearthrower wrote:
Pudendum wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:None of this lends a jot of credibility to the on-going fantasy, yet there's an actual recording of Trump trying to pressure a secretary of state to 'find' more votes to let Trump win, and yet this actual authentic evidence seems less interesting that what a well known far-right conspiracy theorist claims in a film. Priorities ain't what they used to be.

I've considered both sides of that, too. I don't believe you have.

You don't believe I have because of those prejudices you've come here to rehearse.

Not so. I don't believe you because you are clearly anti-Pudendum, and have shown no other interests. Except being anti-Trump (though that latter is just a guess)

In reality, of course, you know fuck all about me - your confidence is derived from your navel, not from the real world.

I know that you hammer on my posts like they are important to you.

Without really contributing to the thread. They have a name for that behaviour...trulling...trilling...

Pudendum wrote:If you want to convince me that you are believable on that (or Trump in general) just tell me which false media smears you didn't fall for.

You think I want to convince you?

Nope. That's why I'm unconvinced.

Fuck me, chap -

I wouldn't fuck you with a stolen dick.

which bit of me not taking you at all seriously don't you grasp? You're the most obvious troll I've ever encountered - it's like you're too cocky to even try and be subtle about your trolling - when you got banned from everywhere else, did you never once think 'It's because of me, isn't it?'

'everywhere else', eh?

Sounds like the you made that up to make yourself sound more important or something. I'd ask you to back it up, but if you are the troll you have been, you wouldn't do it, so I won't make it awkward for you.

I understand you think wikipedia is a valid source, but I prefer to look at the results of the impeachment - which were zero.

Outside of the Democrats and their fan-base, that is.

How IS their fan-base, by the way? It looks like Trump draws HUGE crowds, and Biden can't effectively fill a diaper, much less a larger venue...

Spearthrower · **#75** by **Spearthrower** » May 10, 2022 6:24 am

All you're doing is underscoring that you're here to troll people - grow up chap.

Fenrir · **#76** by **Fenrir** » May 10, 2022 8:08 am

Oh look, the very exact reason i haven't been to Rationalia in years.

Oh joy

Greg the Grouper · **#77** by **Greg the Grouper** » May 10, 2022 9:51 am

Pudendum wrote:You are assuming it is easily obtained. I gather it is kind of costly to purchase (the cell-phone data) and even more costly to analyse.

As far as I know, this is the first use of this kind of information in regards to election fraud in that election. It has been used for other things though.

I would argue that Dinesh D'Souza is less likely to have funds for such matters than most US government institutions.

Even if this wasn't the case, if an investigator was capable of convincing a judge that this information was so pertinent to the case (a thing which must necessarily be possible, assuming the information presented in the documentary does definitively prove that the election was stolen), they would be able to obtain this information through court order.

I think they were most often tossed out on standing (so no evidence was reviewed) or cases where evidence was reviewed, this wasn't the kind of evidence offered.

So professional investigators in multiple court cases failed to draw a logical throughline between the alleged crime and this information which presumably must be directly related to said crime, as it definitively proves that said crime occurred? They just didn't bother? All the courts of the land just didn't care?

Good question. I would think that with all the fraud exposed so far (including convictions etc.) it wouldn't be so controversial to bring up.

See, me, I just come to the conclusion that it's highly unlikely that Dinesh D'Souza is better at criminal investigation than various professional investigators across the country, that it's highly unlikely that all these investigators actively sought to cover up this crime (and of course it would only take one to expose it), and that it's highly unlikely that various courts throughout the country all actively sought to bury a fraudulent election. It seems to me that a much simpler explanation is that this documentary is just a nothing burger, like everything else surrounding this topic of discussion.

Honestly, it seems to me that a lot of this requires infrastructure headed largely by Democrats, which would imply a largely Democrat voter base, which would imply we could've just elected Biden fair and square to begin with.

newolder · **#78** by **newolder** » May 10, 2022 10:53 am

Breaking wibble from multiple outlets e.g. Business Insider

Pro-Trump OAN network admits there was no widespread fraud in Georgia in the 2020 election after extensively pushing the claim

Any relevance here?

felltoearth · **#79** by **felltoearth** » May 10, 2022 12:32 pm

Pudendum wrote:
felltoearth wrote:
Pudendum wrote:
This kind of data-mining is fairly common. I wonder if anyone minds that DeSouza et al can investigate individuals with such ease and thoroughness. And accuracy.

D’Souza is either lying or he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
No, there is a third possibility. I've not examined his claims very closely (watched only part of the movie so far, to be fair) but maybe you HAVE discerned his claims.

Either way not a good look but certainly on brand.

Is the amount he over-donated the issue? Or the fact that he has been convicted?

Others donate plenty. I don't know if you know this, but wealthy American oligarchs donate all kinds of donations to politicians. Some do hundreds of millions, without getting convicted.

Cell tower info isn’t geotracking.
This statement doesn't make sense to me yet. Just being close enough for the tower to 'see' you should identify the location of a phone roughly.
The CDC uses cellphone proximity via bluetooth for tracking.
Was the same kind of information sold to 'True The Vote' for their investigation? Or did they buy the 'non-CDC' type of data?

Aren’t you tired of being lied to? Or don’t you care?
I don't care, because one of the things I am very sure of, is that all humans lie.

To suggest that it would 'tire' me, I can only say that sounds like the honest assessment of someone who is very overweight or sickly. I hope you aren't in that state. It's dangerous. Or don't you care?

Lol, get back to me once you’ve figured out how “geotracking” and cell phone triangulation works.

There’s a sucker born every minute.

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felltoearth · **#80** by **felltoearth** » May 10, 2022 12:37 pm

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New 2020 Election Documentary

Have you seen '2000 Mules'

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