The assassination of JFK

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Re: The assassination of JFK

#81  Postby roger rules » Apr 02, 2012 5:12 pm

Back and to the left is deceiving. He was leaning to the left along with his head turned leftward somewhat. He went straight back from his left leaning position and naturally slumped to the left after the shot. The rear skull can be seen popping off.

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Right before the shot.
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Re: The assassination of JFK

#82  Postby roger rules » Apr 02, 2012 5:12 pm

The closest witnesses saw the right rear exit as does every person viewing in it frame 313.
Clint describes a massive exit that could have only been caused by that goon, Greer.

Clint Hill saw the massive hole on the right rear portion of his head.

Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.
Between the time I originally grabbed the handhold and until I was up on the car, Mrs. Kennedy--the second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the President's head, and he had slumped noticeably to his left. Mrs. Kennedy had jumped up from the seat and was, it appeared to me, reaching for something coming off the right rear bumper of the car, the right rear tail, when she noticed that I was trying to climb on the car. She turned toward me and I grabbed her and put her back in the back seat, crawled up on top of the back seat and lay there.


Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
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Re: The assassination of JFK

#83  Postby Weaver » Apr 02, 2012 5:13 pm

It's really hard to reply to anything you post when you're hammering the forum with multiple posts and photos.
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Re: The assassination of JFK

#84  Postby roger rules » Apr 02, 2012 5:14 pm

Debbie Conaway and Jfk Lancer have assisted in further proving the driver assassinated John F. Kennedy


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: Debra Conway
JFK Lancer Productions & Publications
332 N.E.5th Street
Grand Prairie, TX 75050
Phone: 817-488-0978
Email: [email]debra@jfklancer.com[/email]
Web: JFK Lancer - President John F. Kennedy Assassination Latest News and Research


Warren Commission Suppressed Jackie's
Testimony On JFK's Head Wound

Court Reporter's Tape Shows
Additional Description Withheld


Dallas, TX -- August 5, 2001 -- JFK Lancer, an historical research firm reports that the Court Reporter's tape shows Jacqueline Kennedy's testimony before the Warren Commission had additional descriptions which were withheld.
Mrs. Kennedy testified in a short private session held at her home in Washington, D.C., with Chief Justice Earl Warren, Commission General Council J. Lee Rankin, Attorney General Robert Kennedy, and a court reporter in attendance. Testimony of witnesses before the Warren Commission was made public in the fall of 1964. Jacqueline Kennedy's testimony was also released containing her description of her husbands wounds which read :

"And just as I turned and looked at him, I could see a piece of his skull and I remember it was flesh colored. I remember thinking he just looked as if he had a slight headache. And I just remember seeing that. No blood or anything."

But a second section in which she described the wounds she saw carried only the notation: (Reference to Wounds Deleted).
Although very few Americans actually read those transcripts, historians and researchers who did read them were outraged, and waged a legal battle to have the omitted testimony released. In the early 1970s, a court decision required the United States Government to disclose to the public the contents of the still classified section of Mrs. Kennedy's 1964 Warren Commission testimony. Her previously withheld statement read:

" I was trying to hold his hair on. From the front there was nothing --- I suppose there must have been.

But from the back you could see, you know, you were trying to hold his hair on, and his skull on."

Releasing this previously withheld section gave researchers what was assumed to be Mrs. Kennedy's complete description of the President's head wounds. Researchers took for granted that the hand-typed transcript page released by the National Archives from the official records of the Warren Commission ended the matter.

However, new analysis reveals that the original court tape actually reads:

"... I could see a piece of his skull sort of wedge-shaped, like that, and I remember that it was flesh colored with little ridges at the top."

Filmmaker Mark Sobel found the discrepancy while doing research for a forthcoming documentary on JFK. Sobel explained, "I was quite surprised to find that Mrs. Kennedy was not asked for more detail --- she had an opportunity to view the wounds longer and closer than any other person as they originally existed. Given the seemingly contradictory testimony by the doctors who treated the President at Parkland Hospital in Dallas just after the shooting and the Doctors who performed the autopsy at Bethesda many hours later, Mrs. Kennedy's testimony would appear critical."
Sobel filed under the Freedom of Information Act to have the court reporter's original tape of Mrs. Kennedy's testimony unsealed, citing that the content had already been fully declassified by the courts and that it was in the best interest of the public for the accuracy of the existing transcript to be verified. Sobel explained, "As I compared the 1964 transcript to the original court reporter's paper tape, I reached a sentence officially transcribed by the Warren Commission as: "I could see a piece of his skull, and I remember that it was flesh colored"words on the original paper taped no longer matched up."
Court Reporter Kathy Bradford of Bradford Court Reporting of Dallas, Texas, agreed. Bradford reviewed the transcript from the archives and certified Mrs. Kennedy's complete statement was not found in the Warren Commission's version..

This extra description was almost certainly witheld from the Commissioners and Legal Staff as well, since these descriptions are missing in the typed transcript that is contained in the actual Warren Commission Records --- before it was finally released publicly in its entirety.

Apprised of these new details, David Mantik, M.D., Ph.D. stated, "Given the lack of follow-up in Mrs. Kennedy's description to exactly what she saw, these details could have been valuable to the House Select Committee on Assassinations that reviewed the medical evidence." Mantik is one of the few doctors allowed to view President Kennedy's original autopsy materials in the National Archives.
Secret Service Agent Clint Hill, seen in films and photos in Dealey Plaza climbing onto the rear of the limousine, stated in his Warren Commission testimony,
"Between the time I originally grabbed the handhold and until I was up on the car, Mrs. Kennedy--the second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the President's head, and he had slumped noticeably to his left. Mrs. Kennedy had jumped up from the seat and was, it appeared to me, reaching for something coming off the right rear bumper of the car, the right rear tail, when she noticed that I was trying to climb on the car."
Debra Conway of JFK Lancer, says that the court reporter's tape is now on their web site. Conway stated, "Mrs. Kennedy also describes this piece of skull to historian Theodore White in her famous 'Camelot' interview where she told him, 'I could see a piece of his skull coming off; it was flesh colored not white--' This is very similar to what she said to the Warren Commission."
Conway went on to explain, "There were pieces of skull found in the street and in the limousine. The piece of skull described by Mrs. Kennedy could have been one of those later found in the street, the limousine, or an avulsed piece still attached to his head."
Researcher Barb Junkkarinen, who specializes in the medical evidence of the Kennedy assassination and is the Director of the JFK Alliance for Open Archives organization, told JFK Lancer, "The real 'find' here is that two specific descriptions of the head wound by Mrs. Kennedy (that the skull piece was wedge shaped, and that it had little ridges at the top) are not included in what is supposed to be the full and complete transcript of her testimony."
In his memoirs, Senator Arlen Specter, a Junior Council for the Warren Commission in 1964, suggests that the minimal testimony taken from Mrs. Kennedy was due to Earl Warren wishing to be protective of her, and that the handling of her testimony created some distress among other Commissioners and Legal Staff. However, in formerly Top Secret transcripts of the meetings of the seven Commissioners, Commissioner John J. McCloy repeatedly emphasized the importance of obtaining such testimony as quickly as possible "She's the best witness," he said "as to how those bullets struck her husband."

Junkkarinen adds, "Why they would withhold an accurate description is open to debate, but the fact that they put out an altered transcript is telling. How many other transcripts may have fallen victim to the same shenanigans? This is a find that proves alteration of original evidence, and that is important.
-2-
JFK Lancer Productions & Publications
JFK Lancer Independent News Exchange

The driver shot Kennedy square in the right forehead with the bullet logically exiting the right rear. That exit wound is corroborated by 40 witnesses and my recent work showing that jfk's rear skull gaped open at the moment of front right impact. Notice the right rear missing in the autopsy pic and compare that to frame 313.

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FRAME 337 SHOWING REAR GAPE AND JACKIE'S SHOCK.
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Thank you, Deb. I am sure you knew this day was coming sooner or later but never could've imagined that you would receive partial credit for exposing Greer as jfk's real assassin. All your hard work has finally paid off by providing an internet sleuth the closest eyewitness to the exit wound that only William Greer could've fired from the front on that fateful day, November 22, 1963.
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Re: The assassination of JFK

#85  Postby Weaver » Apr 02, 2012 5:16 pm

Are you "7Forever" on this site?
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Re: The assassination of JFK

#86  Postby roger rules » Apr 02, 2012 5:17 pm

Connally said he saw the fatal shot and quickly corrected himself but his reaction when looking at Greer proves he slipped up. Watch him hit the floor in horror once he realized Greer shot Kennedy.

Obviously, at least the major wound that I took in the shoulder through the chest couldn't have been anything but the second shot. Obviously, it couldn't have been the third, because when the third shot was fired I was in a reclining position, and heard it, saw it and the effects of it, rather--I didn't see it, I saw the effects of it--so it obviously could not have been the third, and couldn't have been the first, in my judgment.

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Connally turned towards Greer in his reaction to Greer braking during his second turn to shoot jfk. He may have seen the gun discharged but definitely saw it before Greer pulled it down out of sight.
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Re: The assassination of JFK

#87  Postby roger rules » Apr 02, 2012 5:19 pm

Connally described being sprayed with a clear liquid which is something more logical than some fake red blotch. It's also not likely that fluid would show up in these old films but the back of his head popping off would, especially if it opens up just the way it does in Zapruder. These are in sequential order with the first being just before 313, showing the perfect gape up close. Jfk's skull did what it logically had to do with the right rear exit wound he suffered. The back of his head was blown off just like forty witnesses saw with their own eyes, including Clint Hill, Jackie, and Jfk's killer, Bill Greer.

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Between 313-314
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THE WHOLE REAR POPS OFF AFTER IMPACT.
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Re: The assassination of JFK

#88  Postby roger rules » Apr 02, 2012 5:20 pm

In reply to an earlier post on Nov. 9, 2010 2:41 AM PST
Tyler Newcomb says:
Yes I have a very faded copy of that. If you still have it I'd like to see if it's better than mine to find a way to put it in the book. Thanks

A Murder Within was self published in 1974.

Look on the right side, under 'beats fists against car'. It's the second sentence.The third shot he heard might have been a Secret Service man returning the fire, he said.

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Re: The assassination of JFK

#89  Postby roger rules » Apr 02, 2012 5:21 pm

Testimony Of Mrs. Jean Lollis Hill

Mr. SPECTER - What occurred at the time of the fourth shot which you believe you heard?
Mrs. HILL - Well, at that time, of course, there was a pause and I took the other shots---about that time Mary grabbed me and was yelling and I had looked away from what was going on here and I thought, because I guess from the TV and movies, that it was Secret Service agents shooting back. To me, if somebody shoots at somebody they always shoot back and so I just thought that that's what it was and I thought, well, they are getting him and shooting back, you know; I didn't know.

Mr. SPECTER - Where was the President's car at the time you thought you heard the fourth shot?
Mrs. HILL - The motorcade came to almost a halt at the time the shots rang out, and I would say it was just approximately, if not---it couldn't have been in the same position, I'm sure it wasn't, but just a very, very short distance from where it had been. It was just almost stunned.
Mr. SPECTER - And how about the time of the fifth shot, where do you think the President's car was?
Mrs. HILL - That was during those shots, I think it wasn't any further than a few feet---further down.
Mr. SPECTER - Which shots, now---you mean the fourth, and perhaps the fifth and perhaps the sixth shot?
Mrs. HILL - Yes.

Mr. SPECTER - You thought that perhaps the second burst of shots you heard were being directed toward him by the Secret Service?

Mrs. HILL - I Just thought, "Oh, goodness, the Secret Service is shooting back."

Mr. SPECTER - What was your impression as to the source of the second group of shots which you have described as the fourth, perhaps the fifth, and perhaps the sixth shot?
Mrs. HILL - Well, nothing, except that I thought that they were fired by someone else.
Mr. SPECTER - And did you have any idea where they were coming from?
Mrs. HILL - No; as I said, I thought they were coming from the general direction of that knoll.
Mr. SPECTER - Well, did you think that the Secret Service was firing them from that knoll?
Mrs. HILL - I said I didn't know-I really don't.
Mr. SPECTER - You just had the general impression that shots were coming from the knoll?
Mrs. HILL - Yes.
Mr. SPECTER - And you had the general impression that the Secret Service was firing the second group of shots at the man who fired the first group of shots?
Mrs. HILL - That's right
.
Mr. SPECTER - But you had no specific impression as to the source of those shots?
Mrs. HILL - No.

Jean Hill was looking at the limo when Greer shot Jfk. FRAME 310.
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Re: The assassination of JFK

#90  Postby roger rules » Apr 02, 2012 5:27 pm

What an opposition would have to do is impossible. They would have to prove that Greer's fake hand popping off the wheel in zframe 304 is real. In other words they would fail because Greer's left hand/arm were crossing his right shoulder in both nix and muchmore during the critical frames right before jfk received the headshot. The first thing that happens is, Greer is passing a large covered object from his right to left hand 4 seconds before he fired back. This visual fact has been ignored and in some cases researchers have outright lied about his hands even leaving the wheel.

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The covered gun is seen perfectly in 258 with his right suited arm distinguishable.
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Greer's left hand cannot be seen returning to the wheel in Zapruder because during the alteration they panned upward to hide when Greer moved his left hand with the gun to near his shoulder, so when he turned the second time to shoot, he just pushed up, over and fired.

Greer's left arm crosses his shoulder in perfect unison with the headshot in nix, proving Zapruder was altered to hide Greer as the real assassin. The same movement happens in muchmore but there's an obstructed view running forward. You can see the white/bleached gun going to the floor after Greer shoots and turns forward.

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The fake hand is very obvious without even looking at nix because of Bob Harris's brightening of this footage. No evidence exists that his left hand ever returned to the wheel and all researchers did was ignore that he passed the gun, therefore ignoring he shot jfk and supported a very obviously altered Zfilm because they felt it was politically incorrect to prove this shocking and pathetic fact against american government.

NO HAND OR ARM...there is nothing but some grey thing that tried and failed to mimic a hand but there's one huge problem there. THEY DIDN'T ATTACH A FAKE ARM TO THE FAKE HAND.LOL

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If William Greer did not kill Kennedy none of these alterations would have taken place. If Greer didn't shoot jfk his left arm would not be crossing in two other films. If Greer wasn't the assassin he would NOT have passed anything to his left hand. If Greer was innocent it wouldn't look exactly like he shoots jfk with silly FAKE reflections creating that visual at the exact moment jfk's shot in the head. In other words, it is impossible for Greer to be anything but guilty of assassinating John F. Kennedy.

My obsession paid off in the biggest way possible for any truth seekers in this world. Never in this country has there ever been a more epic blunder than those goons in the 60's thinking they could get away with something as silly as using the secret service to kill an American President in an open limousine. Make no mistake that this is not as much me who solved this silly cover-up but the information age.
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Re: The assassination of JFK

#91  Postby roger rules » Apr 02, 2012 5:29 pm

Zapruder Frames - Costella Combined Edit
Greer passed the gun in Zapruder before the shot and it's seen after the shot in frame 319. The passenger, Roy Kellerman reaches way to his left and retreives the gun after jfk is assassinated. He apparently braced his left arm on the seat and grabbed the gun with his right hand. The arrows indicate his head and upper right arm.

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Re: The assassination of JFK

#92  Postby roger rules » Apr 02, 2012 5:32 pm

The film being altered to make it look like his left arm didn't cross is the evidence that Greer shot jfk. The alteration would NOT have been committed for any other reason. Connnally's reflection is depicted the same in the polaroid and Zapruder but Roy's head is without the fake blob in the polaroid, nix, and muchmore. The muchmore cap is the moment of entrance to jfk's right forehead.

In addition, it recoils and does all kinds of impossible things only a cartoon could produce. Unless the sun disappears when filmed from the other side of a reflection, but depicts the same reflection on Connally but not Kellerman. The Moorman pic was taken at Zapruder frame 309 and shows no fake reflection on Roy's head, but frame 312-313 of Z shows the fake reflection causing the headshot. Connally's reflection is the same in the pic and Zapruder. Defeated liars must ignore Connally's consistent reflection and impose fictional fantasies. The nix film depicts no fake reflection, and Roy's head snaps back swiftly (just like you'd expect of someone trying to hide that the driver was shooting the President), the complete opposite of the perfectly altered movement seen in Zapruder.

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Re: The assassination of JFK

#93  Postby stormwatcher » Apr 23, 2012 8:27 am

roger rules wrote:The closest witnesses saw the right rear exit as does every person viewing in it frame 313.
Clint describes a massive exit that could have only been caused by that goon, Greer.

Clint Hill saw the massive hole on the right rear portion of his head.

Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.
Between the time I originally grabbed the handhold and until I was up on the car, Mrs. Kennedy--the second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the President's head, and he had slumped noticeably to his left. Mrs. Kennedy had jumped up from the seat and was, it appeared to me, reaching for something coming off the right rear bumper of the car, the right rear tail, when she noticed that I was trying to climb on the car. She turned toward me and I grabbed her and put her back in the back seat, crawled up on top of the back seat and lay there.


Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.


What Mr Hill said in the above quote does not match up with what he said last week at The 6th Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza. Mr. Hill was at the museum last Thursday promoting his new book, "Mrs. Kennedy and Me". I was present that day.

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As we were being seated, we were told that there were question cards in our seats and we were encouraged to fill them out. At the conclusion of the program, 4 or 5 questions were answered and mine was one of them.

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Mr. Hill stated that he only heard 2 shots. He said he was told later that there were 3 shots but did not elaborate as to who told him or when he was told. He also stated that both shots he heard came from behind and to his right. He was convinced that both shots came from the Texas School Book Depository building. I cannot remember if this next statement was an additional answer after my question or in response to another question but he stated that he thought Oliver Stone's JFK was a piece of junk and wished that no one would see it!

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What I find strange is that in the above testimony, he says that the right rear of the President's head was missing. Anyone remotely familiar with firearms knows that entrance wounds are small and exit wounds are large. This just doesn't add up!
There was a video production crew there that day and a video was made. I am search of a copy of this video.
Now I find it very hard to believe that the limo driver shot the President, but it sure looks like the kill came from the front!
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Re: The assassination of JFK

#94  Postby Weaver » Apr 23, 2012 3:03 pm

Do not confuse entrance/exit wound profiles in soft tissue with enclosed structures such as the skull.

Anyone familiar with recent sniper operations in Iraq and Afghanistan knows that head shots with high-powered rifles frequently "turn the head into a canoe" (to use the terminology in common use in the community).
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Re: The assassination of JFK

#95  Postby stormwatcher » Apr 23, 2012 5:49 pm

Weaver wrote:Do not confuse entrance/exit wound profiles in soft tissue with enclosed structures such as the skull.

Anyone familiar with recent sniper operations in Iraq and Afghanistan knows that head shots with high-powered rifles frequently "turn the head into a canoe" (to use the terminology in common use in the community).


I am sure you know much more than me about ballistics and how bullets affect soft tissue/enclosed structures. Do you actually think that the kill shot came from behind? If so, why? Do you think any frontal shots were made on the President?
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Re: The assassination of JFK

#96  Postby Weaver » Apr 23, 2012 5:51 pm

Yes, all the shots came from behind. Multiple, extensive forensics and shooting recreations have demonstrated this.

No shots came from the front. Oswald was the only shooter.
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Re: The assassination of JFK

#97  Postby stormwatcher » Apr 23, 2012 10:48 pm

Weaver wrote:Yes, all the shots came from behind. Multiple, extensive forensics and shooting recreations have demonstrated this.

No shots came from the front. Oswald was the only shooter.


So what you are saying is that the high powered rifle used by LHO had enough power to make an entry wound that utterly destroyed the back of the President's head but didn't have enough power to exit the front?

Weaver wrote:Do not confuse entrance/exit wound profiles in soft tissue with enclosed structures such as the skull.

Anyone familiar with recent sniper operations in Iraq and Afghanistan knows that head shots with high-powered rifles frequently "turn the head into a canoe" (to use the terminology in common use in the community).
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Re: The assassination of JFK

#98  Postby Weaver » Apr 24, 2012 12:12 am

stormwatcher wrote:
Weaver wrote:Yes, all the shots came from behind. Multiple, extensive forensics and shooting recreations have demonstrated this.

No shots came from the front. Oswald was the only shooter.


So what you are saying is that the high powered rifle used by LHO had enough power to make an entry wound that utterly destroyed the back of the President's head but didn't have enough power to exit the front?


No - I am not saying that. Neither are the forensic simulations. What makes you think that is the case?
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Re: The assassination of JFK

#99  Postby stormwatcher » Apr 24, 2012 6:59 pm

Weaver,

Sorry if I upset you..... I was just trying to pick your brain. I am trying to see what makes you think all the shots came from the rear. Not insult you. I apologize if I offended you.

I have no idea what happened. All I can do is read and talk to people and form my own opinion. I listen/read the evidence, weigh it's credibility, and form my opinion.

One thing I have learned over the years is that when money, sex, power & influence are involved, people lie.

People are very easy to figure out. We are not hard to decipher. I can't think of one crime that is not tied to money, sex or power and influence or some combination of these.

Also! There is something in us that makes us WANT to tell the truth and DO what's right and for the most part we do. It's when sex, money or power and influence is involved where we fail.

Even when we fail, we still, deep down, WANT to do what's right and TELL the truth. I have spoken to many law enforcement officials and they pretty much all agree, that more times than not, criminals will finally break down and tell the truth....especially when confronted with the evidence against them. Telling the truth is just in our DNA so to say.

So I listen, read, assess, weigh and then form my opinions based on my life experience.

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JFK's Press Secretary Malcolm Kilduff indicating on 11/22/1963 how the fatal shot was inflicted.

Houston Chronicle coverage,
Published Nov. 22, 1963:


Dr. Kemp Clark, neurosurgeon, said:
"I was called because the President had sustained a brain injury."
"It was apparent the President had sustained a lethal wound," Dr. Clark said.
"A missile had gone in and out of the back of his head, causing extensive lacerations and loss of brain tissue. Shortly after I arrived, the President's heart stopped. We attempted resuscitation, initiating closed chest heart massage, but to no avail.
"We were able to obtain a palpable pulse by this method but again to no avail.
President Kennedy died on the emergency table after 20 minutes.

Dr. Kemp describes TWO distinct wounds. One in the front... and one in the back.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btPXzX1DtJE[/youtube]

I would be curious if you have any information that would tend to discredit any of the above photos or video?
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Re: The assassination of JFK

#100  Postby Weaver » Apr 24, 2012 8:54 pm

Have you read the thread yet? Only I'm pretty sure we covered it already, with links.
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