clams on mount everest

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clams on mount everest

#1  Postby Net Traveller » Apr 20, 2011 8:58 am

Hi I just want to say that I know the real reason that clams and sea shells have been found on mount everest is due to plate tectonics, everest was once under the sea. But we all know creationist like to use the sea shells on mount everest argument as evidence that Noah's flood was real. anyway I saw one creationist post that when clams die they open up and that the clams found on everest and other mountains are all closed therefore he reasons they died under pressure (from a global flood) and rejects plate tectonics. what is the answer to this? how can i rebut this claim?
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Re: clams on mount everest

#2  Postby hackenslash » Apr 20, 2011 9:04 am

By pointing out that the global flud is a fantasy, along with all the evidence against it. If you want a wealth of information in this regard, you could do worse than to read the Great Flood Debate Peanut Gallery Thread on the old forum. It's very long (862 pages), but with much ROFLing and lots of good info and hard empirical evidence.
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Re: clams on mount everest

#3  Postby trubble76 » Apr 20, 2011 10:15 am

I don't get it. The claim seems to be that when clams die in normal circumstances (ie in water) their shells open up, but during the flud when they were under water, their shells did not open. Was the Flud not made of water? Also, do clams float to the surface (ie the top of mountains that are now submerged)?
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Re: clams on mount everest

#4  Postby lordshipmayhem » Apr 20, 2011 2:21 pm

trubble76 wrote:Was the Flud not made of water?

It was made of imaginary water, using anime physics.
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Re: clams on mount everest

#5  Postby HughMcB » Apr 20, 2011 2:54 pm

Just read any Noahs Ark thread and its full of debunking wisdom.
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Re: clams on mount everest

#6  Postby theropod » Apr 20, 2011 11:50 pm

More importantly, to me, than the clams found on the flanks of Everest are the ammonites. These are clearly remains that can be dated from the Cretaceous and are not found above the K-T boundary anywhere on the planet. The K-T boundary is no younger than 65 million years. Unless they want to make a Byers-like assertion that the K-T boundary is a marker for the "great flood"they should shut the fuck up about the fossils of marine creatures. Maybe they should just shut the fuck up and attempt to learn some real science. :ask:

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Re: clams on mount everest

#7  Postby james1v » Apr 21, 2011 12:20 am

Net Traveller wrote:Hi I just want to say that I know the real reason that clams and sea shells have been found on mount everest is due to plate tectonics, everest was once under the sea. But we all know creationist like to use the sea shells on mount everest argument as evidence that Noah's flood was real. anyway I saw one creationist post that when clams die they open up and that the clams found on everest and other mountains are all closed therefore he reasons they died under pressure (from a global flood) and rejects plate tectonics. what is the answer to this? how can i rebut this claim?



The answer is below.


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Re: clams on mount everest

#8  Postby Gallstones » Apr 21, 2011 2:29 am

hackenslash wrote:By pointing out that the global flud is a fantasy, along with all the [alleged] evidence against for it. If you want a wealth of information in this regard, you could can't do worse than to read the Great Flood Debate Peanut Gallery Thread on the old [RDF] forum. It's very long (862 pages), but with much ROFLing and lots of good info and hard empirical evidence.
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Re: clams on mount everest

#9  Postby Oldskeptic » Apr 21, 2011 2:51 am

Net Traveller wrote:Hi I just want to say that I know the real reason that clams and sea shells have been found on mount everest is due to plate tectonics, everest was once under the sea. But we all know creationist like to use the sea shells on mount everest argument as evidence that Noah's flood was real. anyway I saw one creationist post that when clams die they open up and that the clams found on everest and other mountains are all closedtherefore he reasons they died under pressure (from a global flood) and rejects plate tectonics. what is the answer to this? how can i rebut this claim?


He/she is making shit up, or simply believes the shit that Kent Hovind makes up.
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Re: clams on mount everest

#10  Postby LucidFlight » Apr 21, 2011 3:57 am

trubble76 wrote:I don't get it. The claim seems to be that when clams die in normal circumstances (ie in water) their shells open up, but during the flud when they were under water, their shells did not open. Was the Flud not made of water? Also, do clams float to the surface (ie the top of mountains that are now submerged)?

They realised that this may be their only opportunity to climb Everest. So, what did they do? They clambered up there.
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Re: clams on mount everest

#11  Postby Robert Byers » Apr 21, 2011 6:36 am

Net Traveller wrote:Hi I just want to say that I know the real reason that clams and sea shells have been found on mount everest is due to plate tectonics, everest was once under the sea. But we all know creationist like to use the sea shells on mount everest argument as evidence that Noah's flood was real. anyway I saw one creationist post that when clams die they open up and that the clams found on everest and other mountains are all closed therefore he reasons they died under pressure (from a global flood) and rejects plate tectonics. what is the answer to this? how can i rebut this claim?


This is probably what they said. Everest didn't exist before the flood. its just crumpled up land from the crashings etc of the land masses during the biblical flood. So as they rose they brought up what had been thrown on them . All this while under water. so the great water pressure or the water prssure on sediment didn't allow the clams too open as usual upon death. Thy were entombed before opening and this entombing was the origin of their instant fossilization.
so they not opening is a clue that such a great number could only of been instantly covered and killed under sediment or water pressure.
A fair point based on observations of nature.
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Re: clams on mount everest

#12  Postby LucidFlight » Apr 21, 2011 7:29 am

Robert Byers wrote:Everest didn't exist before the flood. its just crumpled up land from the crashings etc of the land masses during the biblical flood.

So, God didn't creat Everest initially (when he created the Earth); it was formed during the forty days of the flood?
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Re: clams on mount everest

#13  Postby tnjrp » Apr 21, 2011 7:35 am

Oh :hello: again Mr. Byers!

You may not have noticed that we've got another interesting thread about the Flood here. It's a bit quiet as of now but I'm sure your input would be greatly appreciated there -- especially viz. the YES vs. OEC position and the globality vs. locality of the Flood.
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Re: clams on mount everest

#14  Postby stijndeloose » Apr 21, 2011 7:39 am

tnjrp wrote:Oh :hello: again Mr. Byers!

You may not have noticed that we've got another interesting thread about the Flood here. It's a bit quiet as of now but I'm sure your input would be greatly appreciated there -- especially viz. the YES vs. OEC position and the globality vs. locality of the Flood.


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Re: clams on mount everest

#15  Postby Scar » Apr 21, 2011 7:40 am

Robert Byers wrote:
Net Traveller wrote:Hi I just want to say that I know the real reason that clams and sea shells have been found on mount everest is due to plate tectonics, everest was once under the sea. But we all know creationist like to use the sea shells on mount everest argument as evidence that Noah's flood was real. anyway I saw one creationist post that when clams die they open up and that the clams found on everest and other mountains are all closed therefore he reasons they died under pressure (from a global flood) and rejects plate tectonics. what is the answer to this? how can i rebut this claim?


This is probably what they said. Everest didn't exist before the flood. its just crumpled up land from the crashings etc of the land masses during the biblical flood. So as they rose they brought up what had been thrown on them . All this while under water. so the great water pressure or the water prssure on sediment didn't allow the clams too open as usual upon death. Thy were entombed before opening and this entombing was the origin of their instant fossilization.
so they not opening is a clue that such a great number could only of been instantly covered and killed under sediment or water pressure.
A fair point based on observations of nature.


Yeah, if you are basing it on ignoring observations of nature.
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Re: clams on mount everest

#16  Postby theropod » Apr 21, 2011 10:12 am

Sorry folks, I used Mr. Byers as an example of fuck-up thinking associated with this flood idea, and that seems to have attracted him. I'll be more careful from now on.

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Re: clams on mount everest

#17  Postby ADParker » Apr 22, 2011 12:59 am

Net Traveller wrote:Hi I just want to say that I know the real reason that clams and sea shells have been found on mount everest is due to plate tectonics, everest was once under the sea. But we all know creationist like to use the sea shells on mount everest argument as evidence that Noah's flood was real. anyway I saw one creationist post that when clams die they open up and that the clams found on everest and other mountains are all closed therefore he reasons they died under pressure (from a global flood) and rejects plate tectonics. what is the answer to this? how can i rebut this claim?


This is an old standard of Kent Hovind (and of course his son Eric who does little but parrot is old man.)
It is not true that all clams open when they die. Nor can I find any support for the assertion that all the clams fossils on those mountains are closed anyway.

Furthermore; the assertion that this is evidence for Teh Flud is just question begging nonsense. All they are doing is saying "See this could have fit within our flood story, therefore it is strong evidence for it." Rubbish; merely fitting within an idea does not count as anything close to positive evidence.

If it is true that there are a mass of closed fossil clams on Mount Everest, then all this would infer is that for some reason (of which there could be many, including disease, any manner of rapid burial etc.) they died that way. Not that this particular physically impossible global flood of myth actually occured! Or even that those kinds of fossils at that period of history didn't tend to open on death. :dunno:
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Re: clams on mount everest

#18  Postby Onyx8 » Apr 22, 2011 3:28 am

They open when you cook them in boiling water. Why/how would they open if they die under the sand where they live?
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: clams on mount everest

#19  Postby ADParker » Apr 22, 2011 3:51 am

Onyx8 wrote:They open when you cook them in boiling water. Why/how would they open if they die under the sand where they live?

Because clams produce a protein called paramyosin, which enables them to hold their shells closed in contraction, for as long as a month, even after death, until that protein breaks down. A live clam will however open in 'panic' when boiled alive, and tends to eventually open over time after death due to the natural breakdown of the protein.
Any number of pressures of course can easily keep them closed after death long enough to be sealed in other ways (calcification etc.)
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Re: clams on mount everest

#20  Postby Onyx8 » Apr 22, 2011 3:55 am

Indeed, the basic premise is flawed. As usual.
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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