Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

Scoring the arguments for and against

Incl. intelligent design, belief in divine creation

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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#221  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 03, 2022 7:35 pm

I'm having some trouble following this convoluted plot.

Natural immunity to a virus with multiple variants which is anyway about to go extinct any second now?
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#222  Postby Cito di Pense » Dec 03, 2022 7:39 pm

Spearthrower wrote:I'm having some trouble following this convoluted plot.

Natural immunity to a virus with multiple variants which is anyway about to go extinct any second now?



It's a plot that doesn't know whether to shit or go blind.

The plot is motivated verbiage. It doesn't involve reasoning. This new "alternate fact" about the world has to be this way, or else the rest of the plot will start to fall apart. Think about what life must be like for someone always teetering on the brink of decompensation over a lie lived for too many years, defended with everything a limited intellect can bring to bear.

How much trouble would it have been to find the actual fact, and just not post a nonsense based on "alternate facts"? Not in terms of legwork, but in terms of having to come up with something that could not be instantly debunked.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#223  Postby Rumraket » Jan 04, 2023 3:40 pm

It's been 3 months now since my previous post and SARS-Cov2 is still around and going strong. Still no evidence it's going to go extinct.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#224  Postby Greg the Grouper » Jan 04, 2023 9:43 pm

Rumraket wrote:It's been 3 months now since my previous post and SARS-Cov2 is still around and going strong. Still no evidence it's going to go extinct.


It's just God testing your faith. Kinda like dinosaur bones.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#225  Postby Spearthrower » Jan 05, 2023 3:55 am

Rumraket wrote:It's been 3 months now since my previous post and SARS-Cov2 is still around and going strong. Still no evidence it's going to go extinct.


The only remedy for this is for you to post more often! :cheers:
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#226  Postby THWOTH » Jan 05, 2023 10:56 am

Rumraket wrote:It's been 3 months now since my previous post...

Three Hail Marys and five Our Fathers.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#227  Postby Rumraket » Mar 17, 2023 2:15 pm

Just dropping in to point out that SARS-Cov2 still exists. No evidence of genetic entropy.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#228  Postby Wortfish » Apr 08, 2023 1:38 pm

Rumraket wrote:Just dropping in to point out that SARS-Cov2 still exists. No evidence of genetic entropy.


The Covid pandemic is over according to authorities in Germany: https://www.politico.eu/article/coronav ... -lockdown/

It comes as scientists admit that high levels of natural immunity are responsible for the demise of the disease: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 40-6736(22)02465-5/fulltext

"Protection from past infection against re-infection from pre-omicron variants was very high and remained high even after 40 weeks. Protection was substantially lower for the omicron BA.1 variant and declined more rapidly over time than protection against previous variants. Protection from severe disease was high for all variants. The immunity conferred by past infection should be weighed alongside protection from vaccination when assessing future disease burden from COVID-19, providing guidance on when individuals should be vaccinated, and designing policies that mandate vaccination for workers or restrict access, on the basis of immune status, to settings where the risk of transmission is high, such as travel and high-occupancy indoor settings."


The virus mutated to evade the immune system, with changes to its spike protein, but failed to adapt sufficiently and so allowed the immune system to catch up with and effectively detect and destroy it. The accumulation of near neutral mutations may have degraded its fitness as predicted: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/20 ... mutations/

The virus failed to acquire new genes and is now at an evolutionary dead end. A salient example of Behe's "Edge of Evolution".
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#229  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 08, 2023 2:47 pm

As we all know by now, Wortfish - when you cite an article, it invariably says the exact opposite of the supposed reason you're citing it. This underscores again and again that you are incapable of honesty. This is a widely observed facet of modern Creationism.

The "natural immunity" is explicitly about those who survived infection and thus have existing antibodies against later re-infection, and what this conferred was mitigated severity not just protection against infection. From the virus' perspective, it has no need to kill people off, only to propagate itself, which is of course a necessary factor for the study to make any sense at all. In other words, covid's doing just fine for itself, but would've been a different story had we not rallied internationally to fight it off.

Also, your summary has nothing to do with evolutionary biology, but is religious belief pretending to scientific legitimacy. There's no evolutionary dead-end in sight as the virus continues to mutate. Behe is bunk, lacking all credibility, as are you.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#230  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 08, 2023 2:51 pm

Wortfish wrote:The accumulation of near neutral mutations may have degraded its fitness as predicted: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/20 ... mutations/



And this also underscores your routine mendacity as the article's behind a paywall, and the free parts there contradict the reason you're citing it. Nothing whatsoever supports your assertion that neutral mutations have 'degraded its fitness' - you're bullshitting again, aren't you?

Unless, of course, you have a paid for subscription to The Japan Times... do tell me if that's the case*, and I will apologize, but I think we all know that your cherrypicking only ever amounts to reading titles and not bothering to read entire articles. You've latched onto the title, haven't you? You haven't read the article, have you? :)


* because you are wholly untrustworthy, I will ask you to quote paragraph 8 of the article. I assume you'll just blather and distract rather than fork out USD 16 a month to try and scrape back some credibility.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#231  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 08, 2023 2:58 pm

Rumraket wrote:Just dropping in to point out that SARS-Cov2 still exists. No evidence of genetic entropy.


All the evidence that contradicts it is just cited as if it were evidence for it.

You can't reason with motivated bullshit. But you can laugh uproariously at those who employ it.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#232  Postby Rumraket » Apr 09, 2023 12:13 am

Wortfish wrote:
Rumraket wrote:Just dropping in to point out that SARS-Cov2 still exists. No evidence of genetic entropy.


The Covid pandemic is over according to authorities in Germany: https://www.politico.eu/article/coronav ... -lockdown/

True the pandemic is over. It is no longer a pandemic. The virus is now endemic to the human population. It will never go away now, having permanently adapted to homo sapiens. It is now like another of the dozens of viruses that cause common colds and flu-like symptoms that will be following us forever.

Wortfish wrote:
It comes as scientists admit that high levels of natural immunity are responsible for the demise of the disease:

Demise of disease. The symptoms of being very ill. Not infection. People still get infected with SARS-Cov2, they just don't get as sick from it.

Wortfish wrote:
The virus mutated to evade the immune system, with changes to its spike protein, but failed to adapt sufficiently and so allowed the immune system to catch up with and effectively detect and destroy it.

And yet it is still around. Endemic to the human population, and will never go away again. People get infected by ever newer variants, they become immune, then the cycle repeats. Cases rise, cases fall, cases rise again. The arms race will never stop.

Wortfish wrote:
The accumulation of near neutral mutations may have degraded its fitness as predicted: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/20 ... mutations/

Nothing in there shows the virus has lower fitness. Literally zero evidence the virus now endemic to the human population has lower absolute or relative fitness compared to the original variant that spawned the pandemic. If anything it probably has higher fitness as it can now move around relatively unconstrained as people get much less ill from it, and as a response the entire globe has basically lifted all restrictions trying to suppress it's rate of spread.

Wortfish wrote:
The virus failed to acquire new genes and is now at an evolutionary dead end.


Where "dead end" means "forever with homo sapiens" and having jumped into multiple other species we associate with. :coffee:
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#233  Postby romansh » Apr 09, 2023 12:38 am

Rumraket wrote: Nothing in there shows the virus has lower fitness.

Would it be fair to say viruses (and similar parasitic entities) that are successful in killing their hosts are likely to reach extinction before more benign entities?
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#234  Postby Rumraket » Apr 09, 2023 6:14 pm

Yes.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#235  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 09, 2023 6:30 pm

Interspecific evolutionary stable strategies, otherwise known by Creationists as "LALALALA I can't hear you"
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