Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

Scoring the arguments for and against

Incl. intelligent design, belief in divine creation

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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#61  Postby felltoearth » Jun 24, 2020 3:57 pm

Wortfish wrote:

The distinction between an hypothesis and a theory is arbitrary.


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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#62  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jun 24, 2020 5:08 pm

Wortfish wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
There's no need to sit around and come up with arguments against the overwhelming evidence for evolutionary theory, any more than there's a need to sit around and come up with arguments against the Earth being a sphere. The evidence is in, you've lost. If you want to sit around all day "playing devil's advocate" for your particular magic man then go for it, but please stop fapping in public.


We test the merits of a scientific hypothesis by trying to falsify it.

Yeah bud, it already happened. Read a book.

When I was at school, the teacher asked me to debate against the motion that I supported it to see if I could appreciate both sides of the argument.

I've seen enough of your "side of the argument" to appreciate it for what it is. That you can't do the same is your problem and nobody else's.

You shouldn't be so certain that you are right: that is neither rational nor skeptical.

Your solipsism is showing.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#63  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jun 24, 2020 5:10 pm

felltoearth wrote:
Wortfish wrote:

The distinction between an hypothesis and a theory is arbitrary.


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I thought the dumbest thing I'd read this month was going to be from that other troll guy. Here comes Wortfish to save the day!
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#64  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jun 24, 2020 5:13 pm

Svartalf wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
Then that would mean it's not water then, wouldn't it?

First time I've ever been told that ice is NOT water...

You know you're playing a dumb word game here, right? If someone asks you for a glass of water, you don't hand them one full of just ice cubes.

yep, sorry, bbut worty's stuff is so sad I have to resort to the crudest methods to sustain my good mood.

I find pointing and laughing is a good way.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#65  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jun 24, 2020 5:14 pm

campermon wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:Ah well. We needed a new pub.


You called?

Super hot in the uk at the moment. Just waiting for the garden to shade and then some mowing and set up the bbq.

Time for a beer while I wait.

:cheers:

Hot as balls here too. I'll have to wait till the weekend for bbq, but I'll join you for a beer :drunk:
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#66  Postby Fallible » Jun 24, 2020 5:14 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Fallible wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
Fallible wrote:I love ‘the outcome may startle you’, and then the outcome is exactly what one would expect from Wortfish.

I was startled by what I found.


What you ‘found’. Yeah, sure you were. You shouldn’t use your own reactions for a gauge of how others might respond. If you had asked us what side we thought you would come down on without giving us the answer, I guarantee you none of us would have been in any doubt. And lo, see how no one was startled. This of course all rests on you being genuine in the first place, and there is at least some question about that.


I had expected the evidence and arguments for evolution to be much more water-tight. Instead, I found a leaky boat.


Of course you bloody did. We already know you’re hopeless on evolution. Your conclusion coincides with your beliefs. Big whoop.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#67  Postby Svartalf » Jun 24, 2020 5:32 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
I find pointing and laughing is a good way.

Maybe not THAT crude.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#68  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jun 24, 2020 5:42 pm

Svartalf wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
I find pointing and laughing is a good way.

Maybe not THAT crude.

I'd argue it's less crude than feigning not understanding what people mean when they say water :wink:
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#69  Postby Wortfish » Jun 26, 2020 12:17 pm

felltoearth wrote:
So take any one of the arguments for Intelligent Design you put forward above and tell us how it is falsifiable. I’ll wait.


I'll takeDarwin's famous test for falsification:

"If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."


I'll just reverse it to state that if it can be shown that a complex organ can be shown to have been formed by slight successive random changes, any case for creationism or ID would absolutely break down.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#70  Postby Wortfish » Jun 26, 2020 12:19 pm

The_Metatron wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
There's no need to sit around and come up with arguments against the overwhelming evidence for evolutionary theory, any more than there's a need to sit around and come up with arguments against the Earth being a sphere. The evidence is in, you've lost. If you want to sit around all day "playing devil's advocate" for your particular magic man then go for it, but please stop fapping in public.


We test the merits of a scientific hypothesis by trying to falsify it. When I was at school, the teacher asked me to debate against the motion that I supported it to see if I could appreciate both sides of the argument. You shouldn't be so certain that you are right: that is neither rational nor skeptical.

Was your support for your original position so weak you allowed yourself to be made to argue a point you claimed to know to be wrong?

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I was asked to argue in favor of abortion - which I do not support in general - with the usual "my body, my rights", "the foetus is no different to a tumor or parasite" line.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#71  Postby Fenrir » Jun 26, 2020 12:25 pm

Wortfish wrote:
felltoearth wrote:
So take any one of the arguments for Intelligent Design you put forward above and tell us how it is falsifiable. I’ll wait.


I'll takeDarwin's famous test for falsification:

"If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."


I'll just reverse it to state that if it can be shown that a complex organ can be shown to have been formed by slight successive random changes, any case for creationism or ID would absolutely break down.


There is no case for creationism.

Creationism has no argument. There is no case to "break down"

There is no "creationism or ID". There is only creationism. ID is simply creationism renamed.

Stop pretending these things are in any way new or not widely known.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#72  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jun 26, 2020 12:51 pm

Wortfish wrote:
felltoearth wrote:
So take any one of the arguments for Intelligent Design you put forward above and tell us how it is falsifiable. I’ll wait.


I'll takeDarwin's famous test for falsification:

"If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."


I'll just reverse it to state that if it can be shown that a complex organ can be shown to have been formed by slight successive random changes, any case for creationism or ID would absolutely break down.

We see evidence of organ's form changing over time, so that's creationism in the shitter. Thanks for making it so easy.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#73  Postby felltoearth » Jun 26, 2020 1:02 pm

Wortfish wrote:
felltoearth wrote:
So take any one of the arguments for Intelligent Design you put forward above and tell us how it is falsifiable. I’ll wait.


I'll takeDarwin's famous test for falsification:

"If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."


I'll just reverse it to state that if it can be shown that a complex organ can be shown to have been formed by slight successive random changes, any case for creationism or ID would absolutely break down.

You incredulity and chosen ignorance as you have been schooled on this many times is not a source of falsification. Nor is putting your fingers in your ears and shouting “Nah, Nah, Nah, I can’t hear you!”
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#74  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jun 26, 2020 2:32 pm

Wortfish wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
There's no need to sit around and come up with arguments against the overwhelming evidence for evolutionary theory, any more than there's a need to sit around and come up with arguments against the Earth being a sphere. The evidence is in, you've lost. If you want to sit around all day "playing devil's advocate" for your particular magic man then go for it, but please stop fapping in public.


We test the merits of a scientific hypothesis by trying to falsify it. When I was at school, the teacher asked me to debate against the motion that I supported it to see if I could appreciate both sides of the argument. You shouldn't be so certain that you are right: that is neither rational nor skeptical.

Was your support for your original position so weak you allowed yourself to be made to argue a point you claimed to know to be wrong?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I was asked to argue in favor of abortion - which I do not support in general - with the usual "my body, my rights", "the foetus is no different to a tumor or parasite" line.

I'm guessing you did a shit job of arguing it.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#75  Postby laklak » Jun 26, 2020 2:55 pm

They are fucking parasites, by definition. And they don't change as they age, they keep sucking the lifeblood out of you till you die. Trust me on this.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#76  Postby campermon » Jun 26, 2020 3:00 pm

Wortfish wrote:

I'll just reverse it to state that if it can be shown that a complex organ can be shown to have been formed by slight successive random changes, any case for creationism or ID would absolutely break down.


Can you describe examples?

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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#77  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jun 26, 2020 3:29 pm

laklak wrote:They are fucking parasites, by definition. And they don't change as they age, they keep sucking the lifeblood out of you till you die. Trust me on this.

And it's funny how the support from anti-abortion folks instantly disappears the second that they're born. It's almost like they don't actually care about them and are just grinding an axe.

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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#78  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 26, 2020 3:55 pm

Wortfish wrote:if it can be shown that a complex organ can be shown to have been formed by slight successive random changes


If it can be shown that something can be shown to have been formed, it's all for the show. Too for the show. I mean, showing that something can be shown is far from having shown it. You know how it goes in seminars. You tell 'em what you're going to tell 'em, you tell 'em, and then you tell 'em what you told 'em. Some get it, some don't.

Random small changes are a fact. Selection on the basis of phenotype variation is a fact.

Wortfish wrote:any case for creationism or ID would absolutely break down.


Creationism breaks down, on a basis already explained to you; you don't get to specify anything except what would break it down for you. You're doing the typical creotard bait and switch, here, affirming that creation is the default.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#79  Postby theropod_V_2.0 » Jun 26, 2020 4:50 pm

...or trolling, in the dark tongue.

RS

ETA:
I’ve pointed out the thread about “Birds are Theropod Dinosaurs” before. Good sir refused to address it. Every single challenge above is covered in such detail a monthlong readfest might cover the referred material. Nope, turn a blind eye. See, trolling...
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#80  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jun 26, 2020 5:57 pm

Trolling, stupid, what's the difference.
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