Debunk Creationist Arguments

Need help with rebuttals to these articles and arguments

Incl. intelligent design, belief in divine creation

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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#21  Postby Hermit » May 16, 2019 6:21 am

Spearthrower wrote:That's certainly a possibility, although I wouldn't say it's a certainty. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt until doing so would just be naive.

Agreed, it is not a certainty, but I seem to have a nose for bullshit. People who know me seem to regard me as a walking, talking branch of mythbusters/snopes/bullshit detector.
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#22  Postby Spearthrower » May 16, 2019 6:36 am

I definitely have them spidey-senses too - not sure if you remember Atheistoclast, but I think I caught at least 20 of his sockpuppets on the first post, and something does ring a little inauthentic about the OP... but still, even if he's 100% legit, it's still a wonky notion to seek help in order to and debunk something. Either you've got the ability and knowledge, or else you don't which would mean needing to go and learn the requisite information to a robust enough degree to address or contest arguments, not ask others to provide those arguments for you.
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#23  Postby Cito di Pense » May 16, 2019 7:49 am

ultravegetto wrote:
I'm not trying to trick you, I'm promise.


All your acids and bases are belong to us.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#24  Postby Hermit » May 16, 2019 8:24 am

Spearthrower wrote:...it's still a wonky notion to seek help in order to and debunk something.

Not in my book, but our disagreement on that issue doesn't matter. Ultravegetto was not seeking help. 15 minutes after joining the forum he planted a list of links to four creationists sites under the pretext of seeking help. Seven minutes later he planted a second list containing another seven links of the same sort. Those posts were prepared before he joined. They are not genuine inquiries. Ultrav is an underhanded, dishonest member, but he did not manage to evade my radar. I made that abundantly clear (post #6) the moment I noticed this thread a few hours later, and while I will not claim 100% certainty there is very little doubt in my mind that I am right.

Edit: If it were up to me I'd rickroll every one of those links out of spite.
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#25  Postby Cito di Pense » May 16, 2019 8:46 am

Hermit wrote:15 minutes after joining the forum he planted a list of links to four creationists sites under the pretext of seeking help. Seven minutes later he planted a second list containing another seven links of the same sort.


Maybe that is why somebody might decide (without your inestimable help) that help was not sought. But do instruct us. Document the obvious until the cows come home.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#26  Postby Spearthrower » May 16, 2019 8:49 am

Hermit wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:...it's still a wonky notion to seek help in order to and debunk something.

Not in my book, but our disagreement on that issue doesn't matter...



Well, it would seem the only point really being discussed, so perhaps it may matter more than anything else! :)

Debunking shouldn't come from a position of wanting an argument to be wrong, it should come from a position of knowing an argument to be wrong on factual grounds. Otherwise, it just seems close-minded to seek help in proving something wrong that you don't actually know is wrong. Motivated.
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#27  Postby Blackadder » May 16, 2019 9:04 am

This forum has long been a magnet to junior ranking creationist internet hitmen who have been sent in to enemy territory armed with spurious “questions” and scattergun links to sites in the fuckwitweb. It seems to be some kind of initiation ordeal they go through.

It’s such a well-worn tactic that the pattern of behaviour is easy to spot. The “tell” is that they disappear as quickly as they arrive. Classic insurgency tactics, born of desperation when bullshit meets an unassailable wall of facts and thinking.
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#28  Postby Svartalf » May 16, 2019 9:29 am

Cito di Pense wrote:
Hermit wrote:15 minutes after joining the forum he planted a list of links to four creationists sites under the pretext of seeking help. Seven minutes later he planted a second list containing another seven links of the same sort.


Maybe that is why somebody might decide (without your inestimable help) that help was not sought. But do instruct us. Document the obvious until the cows come home.

Simples, he spammed us with creationist BS and did not stay to discuss things with us, that's evidence enough to take certain conclusions.
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#29  Postby Cito di Pense » May 16, 2019 11:25 am

Svartalf wrote:that's evidence enough to take certain conclusions.


Like money in the bank, for some. To paraphrase Led Zeppelin, the spam remains the same.

Four runners compete in a race: Annie, Becca, Carlos, and Dante.
After some confusion at the finish line, it's unclear what the final finishing order was, but the following information is known:

Dante finished before Annie.
Becca wasn't third.
There were two runners between Annie and Carlos.

Who won the race?

Hint: This is not difficult.

For extra credit, determine who among A, B, C, and D is a person of color and who is LGBT.
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#30  Postby Svartalf » May 16, 2019 12:08 pm

shit, I should ace through that kind of problem like a whale through a cloud of krill, but I'm so out of kilter I may have to do it on paper if I want to be serious about it.... I'd say Carlos could be First, followed by Becca and Dante and Annie being last. That's not necessarily the only possible solution, but it fulfills the criteria of the problem. As for who is colored or LGBT, there's no available data to determine that.
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#31  Postby TopCat » May 16, 2019 12:23 pm

Svartalf wrote:I'd say Carlos could be First, followed by Becca and Dante and Annie being last. That's not necessarily the only possible solution

Yes it is.

If there are two between Annie and Carlos, they must be 1st and 4th. If Dante is before Annie, she can't be 1st, so must be 4th, so Carlos must be 1st.

Becca isn't 3rd, so must be 2nd, which leaves only Dante for 3rd.

Of course this is only true if there are exactly four runners, and that they all finished, and at different times, which the question doesn't specify.
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#32  Postby TopCat » May 16, 2019 12:30 pm

Oh, and obviously Carlos is the person of colour, and Dante is LGBT. Annie and Becca are obviously English, white, go to church on Sundays, wear pink, are in their mid-20s, and have medium length hair.

___
Edited to remove the completely unnecessary 'irony' tags. If it's not obvious I'm not being serious, you can fuck off.
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#33  Postby Spearthrower » May 16, 2019 12:40 pm

TopCat wrote:
Of course this is only true if there are exactly four runners, and that they all finished, and at different times, which the question doesn't specify.


:thumbup:
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#34  Postby Wortfish » Dec 26, 2019 12:51 am

Haven't read this conference paper, but it is food for thought considering that it attacks the central point of Dawkins' argument about how cumulative natural selection allegedly produces innovation in biology:

Parameter Dependence in Cumulative Selection
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.10 ... 10840-7_26

Cumulative selection is a powerful process in which small changes accumulate over time because of their selective advantage. It is central to a gradualist approach to evolution, the validity of which has been called into question by proponents of alternative approaches to evolution. An important question in this context concerns how the efficiency of cumulative selection depends on various parameters. This dependence is investigated as parameters are varied in a simple problem where the goal is to find a target string starting with a randomly generated guess. The efficiency is found to be extremely sensitive to values of population size, mutation rate and string length. Unless the mutation rate is sufficiently close to a value where the number of generations is a minimum, the number of generations required to reach the target is much higher if it can be reached at all.
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#35  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 26, 2019 8:05 am

Haven't read this conference paper, but it is food for thought


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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#36  Postby Wortfish » Dec 26, 2019 4:44 pm

It is behind a paywall.But I will ask the author for a private copy. Still very interesting abstract.
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#37  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 26, 2019 6:11 pm

You haven't read it, but your reading and interpretation of the title and abstract is exactly what's interesting.

This is a pattern with you - completely misreading... apparently entirely willfully misreading what's written then pretending it's a sign of Creationism's imminent victory over Biology.

I just think it's funny how absurd your statement above is and how little you appear to be aware of that.
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#38  Postby Rumraket » Dec 27, 2019 2:15 am

Wortfish wrote:it attacks the central point of Dawkins' argument

Where does it do that?
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#39  Postby laklak » Dec 27, 2019 3:19 am

Oh look, he's a philosopher of religion. He writes papers about computational AI algorithm hoo-de-doos that help prove God or something. I assume he's the same David H. Glass who wrote "Atheism's New Clothes: Exloring and Exposing the Claims of the New Atheists" which has garnered two (count em! TWO!) Amazon reviews ("a thorough rebuttal to the New Atheists!" from one and "Disrobing the atheists" from the other). Surpise, surprise, surprise!

https://philpeople.org/profiles/david-h-glass/publications?order=viewings

I want to get his paper "Science, God, and Ockham's Razor" (presumably a thorough disrobing there too). The stench of apologetics is strong in this one, young Wortfish.
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Re: Debunk Creationist Arguments

#40  Postby Hermit » Dec 27, 2019 6:22 am

https://www.ulster.ac.uk/staff/dh-glass
David Glass has a BSc (Mathematics), MA (Philosophy) and PhD (Theoretical Physics) from Queen's University Belfast where he also worked as a post-doctoral research associate before joining Ulster University in 2000. He is a Senior Lecturer in the School of Computing and Mathematics and is a member of the Computer Science Research Institute.

David teaches both computer science and mathematics, particularly in the areas of programming and numerical methods, and has carried out research in a range of areas. Before joining the university he worked in the theory of atomic and molecular physics, but his current research is in the areas of Bayesian and explanatory reasoning, knowledge discovery, and the mathematical and computational modelling of complex systems. This work is multidisciplinary in nature, involving research in artificial intelligence, mathematics and philosophy of science, and finding application in a range of areas. He has published widely in these fields, has supervised a number of PhD students, and has acquired external funding to support his research.

David also has an interest in the relationship between science and religious belief and has undertaken research in this area by applying his work on Bayesian and explanatory reasoning to topics such as 'explaining away' and design arguments.
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