Does the Earth spin/rotate about it's axis?

questioner121 · #1 by **questioner121** » Jan 29, 2011 5:04 pm

I've been thinking about this question for a long time and have done alot of reading on the internet to try and find out what proof exists which can be used to prove that the Earth spins about it's axis. The proofs I've been looking for are experiments that can be tried on Earth (I'm very skeptic of satellite data). So far the main expermiment that is used to prove the Earth spins is the Foucalts Pendulum experiment. I'm hoping that the nice people on this forum will point me to some more experiments. If they can't then I'd have to question why they still believe it to be true and urge them to challenge what they have been taught at school and learn from the media.

So why don't I believe that the Earth spins?

1. If the Earth spins why does the air/clouds spin with the Earth? Surely there is very little friction between the solid Earth crust and the air to cause the air/clouds to spin with the Earth.

2. Shouldn't a plane which flies in an opposite direction to the spin of the Earth move faster relative to the land mass below it?

3. There is no mathematical proof to say that the Earth spin or orbits the Sun.

There's probably some more points but I'll mention them if I can remember them later.

Just to let you know, I consider myself a believer and accept the words of the Quran and most of the Old and New testament (I believe the Bible has been changed over the years but the Quran to this day is totally 100% the same) to be true. Having read the Quran and most of the bible, I couldn't find anywhere where it clearly says that the earth spins. This to me is a fantastic finding because it is a clear challenge against the science of today which according to all the great minds of the past few centuries and all the technological advancement mankind has achieved cleary teaches that the Earth spins.

I'm hoping that athiests (of which there are many clever and knowledgeable ones on this forum) and even the believers who think the Earth spins will be able to guide/educate me to believing that the Earth does spin.

Thanks

Crocodile Gandhi · #2 by **Crocodile Gandhi** » Jan 29, 2011 5:10 pm

questioner121 wrote:Having read the Quran and most of the bible, I couldn't find anywhere where it clearly says that the earth spins.

Well there's your problem. Neither will you find anywhere in the Quran or Bible that mentions Ganymede, Adenosine Triphosphate, or Sickle Cell Anemia. That doesn't mean that those things don't exist.

I'll leave the science to our more knowledgable kinfolk.

aspire1670 · #3 by **aspire1670** » Jan 29, 2011 5:11 pm

questioner121 wrote:I've been thinking about this question for a long time and have done alot of reading on the internet to try and find out what proof exists which can be used to prove that the Earth spins about it's axis. The proofs I've been looking for are experiments that can be tried on Earth (I'm very skeptic of satellite data). So far the main expermiment that is used to prove the Earth spins is the Foucalts Pendulum experiment. I'm hoping that the nice people on this forum will point me to some more experiments. If they can't then I'd have to question why they still believe it to be true and urge them to challenge what they have been taught at school and learn from the media.

So why don't I believe that the Earth spins?

1. If the Earth spins why does the air/clouds spin with the Earth? Surely there is very little friction between the solid Earth crust and the air to cause the air/clouds to spin with the Earth.

2. Shouldn't a plane which flies in an opposite direction to the spin of the Earth move faster relative to the land mass below it?

3. There is no mathematical proof to say that the Earth spin or orbits the Sun.

There's probably some more points but I'll mention them if I can remember them later.

Just to let you know, I consider myself a believer and accept the words of the Quran and most of the Old and New testament (I believe the Bible has been changed over the years but the Quran to this day is totally 100% the same) to be true. Having read the Quran and most of the bible, I couldn't find anywhere where it clearly says that the earth spins. This to me is a fantastic finding because it is a clear challenge against the science of today which according to all the great minds of the past few centuries and all the technological advancement mankind has achieved cleary teaches that the Earth spins.

I'm hoping that aethiests (of which there are many clever and knowledgeable ones on this forum) and even the believers who think the Earth spins will be able to guide/educate me to believing that the Earth does spin.

Thanks

Do you experience sun rise and sunset where you live? Does the sun rise in one position in the sky and set in another? That's the earths rotation that is.

questioner121 · #4 by **questioner121** » Jan 29, 2011 5:19 pm

aspire1670 wrote:

Do you experience sun rise and sunset where you live? Does the sun rise in one position in the sky and set in another? That's the earths rotation that is.

It could be that the Sun is orbiting the Earth. You'd get the same observation.

klazmon · #5 by **klazmon** » Jan 29, 2011 5:27 pm

What's wrong with Foucault's pendulum?

There's also Gravity probe B.

David M · #6 by **David M** » Jan 29, 2011 5:27 pm

questioner121 wrote:1. If the Earth spins why does the air/clouds spin with the Earth? Surely there is very little friction between the solid Earth crust and the air to cause the air/clouds to spin with the Earth.

Very little friction? I think you are unaware of how much friction there is. Look at the effects of air movement (wind) on the landscape and image that with wind speeds a whole magnitude greater.

But even if it was very little friction (and the atmosphere started stationary) over time that friction will cause the atmosphere to move with the earths rotation because there is no equivalent level of friction at the boundary of the atmosphere and space to slow it down.

questioner121 wrote:2. Shouldn't a plane which flies in an opposite direction to the spin of the Earth move faster relative to the land mass below it?

Except, as you have pointed out, the atmosphere rotates with the earth and the plane is flying through that atmosphere.

questioner121 wrote:3. There is no mathematical proof to say that the Earth spin or orbits the Sun.

Except for all astronomic observations of the solar system which can only be reconciled if the various objects are orbiting the sun.

questioner121 wrote:Just to let you know, I consider myself a believer and accept the words of the Quran and most of the Old and New testament (I believe the Bible has been changed over the years but the Quran to this day is totally 100% the same) to be true. Having read the Quran and most of the bible, I couldn't find anywhere where it clearly says that the earth spins. This to me is a fantastic finding because it is a clear challenge against the science of today which according to all the great minds of the past few centuries and all the technological advancement mankind has achieved cleary teaches that the Earth spins.

No its not a clear challenge because the Quran is not a source of scientific knowledge.

SafeAsMilk · #7 by **SafeAsMilk** » Jan 29, 2011 5:29 pm

I suggest reading some basic science first and learn about the scientific method--from what I can tell, you wouldn't understand a proper explanation in the first place. Science has produced a vast body of knowledge, and much of it is interrelated.

If I may ask, why do you accept what the Quran and OT/NT says without question, but feel you need to be absurdly skeptical of science?

Weaver · #8 by **Weaver** » Jan 29, 2011 5:31 pm

More evidence is shown via the science of ballistics - when shooting an object in a (atmospherically modified) ballistic trajectory, the range and deflection (direction) achieved by a particular shell-fuze-powder-gun combination differs depending on one's position North or South of the Equator, and the direction one is firing.

The greatest deviation in range is noted when firing due East vs due West - firing West generates a longer range, as the Earth is rotating away from the impact point while the shell is in flight, compared to firing East, in which the Earth is rotating toward the target point.

Likewise, firing due North or South will generate apparent deflection (directional) changes due to Coriolis Effect.

These are easily observable, and absolutely must be taken into account by anyone launching anything in a ballistic trajectory and interested in accurately predicting the impact.

The Bible and the Quran, on the other hand, are filled with massive quantities of inaccuracies, and shouldn't be taken as evidence of anything other than the gullibility of masses of people throughout history - particularly those convinced of the supposed "inerrancy" of the texts, or of claims that the text has never been changed since originally written.

chaggle · #9 by **chaggle** » Jan 29, 2011 5:39 pm

questioner121 wrote:Having read the Quran and most of the bible, I couldn't find anywhere where it clearly says that the earth spins. This to me is a fantastic finding because it is a clear challenge against the science of today which according to all the great minds of the past few centuries and all the technological advancement mankind has achieved cleary teaches that the Earth spins.

I'm quite used to people saying that if it says something in the bible it must be true but I've never come across an instance where if it doesn't say it in the bible it can't be true. :scratch:

klazmon · **#10** by **klazmon** » Jan 29, 2011 5:46 pm

If the OP doesn't believe the comments about the rotation of the Earth's atmosphere, it should be pointed out that the atmosphere of Mars (even though it is much thiner) behaves in exactly the same way. You cannot have both Mars and the Earth not rotating on their axis.

Blackadder · **#11** by **Blackadder** » Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm

questioner121 wrote:
aspire1670 wrote:

Do you experience sun rise and sunset where you live? Does the sun rise in one position in the sky and set in another? That's the earths rotation that is.

It could be that the Sun is orbiting the Earth. You'd get the same observation.

Yes because every observation that humans have made of every corner of the known universe for centuries show that less massive bodies orbit more massive bodies (and we have mathematical "proofs" (sic) for this) but you think that in our solar system the opposite applies? Have you any idea of the relative mass of the Sun and the Earth? Or the faintest understanding of gravity? Clearly not.

questioner121 · **#12** by **questioner121** » Jan 29, 2011 5:56 pm

chaggle wrote:
questioner121 wrote:Having read the Quran and most of the bible, I couldn't find anywhere where it clearly says that the earth spins. This to me is a fantastic finding because it is a clear challenge against the science of today which according to all the great minds of the past few centuries and all the technological advancement mankind has achieved cleary teaches that the Earth spins.

I'm quite used to people saying that if it says something in the bible it must be true but I've never come across an instance where if it doesn't say it in the bible it can't be true.

My point was that something as important and clear as the Earth orbiting Sun should have been in the Quran or Bible. It would have been clear evidence for the believers that the Quran and Bible have something in them which couldn't be verified by the ancients but could be verified by modern mankind later on. So if this "fact" isn't in the Quran or Bible then as a believer I think you should question why it isn't and verify the "fact".

Weaver · **#13** by **Weaver** » Jan 29, 2011 6:03 pm

So, since we know now that the Earth orbits the Sun, and rotates around it's axis, yet the writers of both the Bible and the Quran didn't know this ... you don't think this is good evidence that the Bible and Quran are both wrong, instead you think they are right and reality is wrong.

That takes a particularly strong Morton's Daemon ...

As an explanation for the way the world works, it is mind-numbing in it's stupidity.

chaggle · **#14** by **chaggle** » Jan 29, 2011 6:07 pm

questioner121 wrote:
chaggle wrote:
questioner121 wrote:Having read the Quran and most of the bible, I couldn't find anywhere where it clearly says that the earth spins. This to me is a fantastic finding because it is a clear challenge against the science of today which according to all the great minds of the past few centuries and all the technological advancement mankind has achieved cleary teaches that the Earth spins.

I'm quite used to people saying that if it says something in the bible it must be true but I've never come across an instance where if it doesn't say it in the bible it can't be true.

My point was that something as important and clear as the Earth orbiting Sun should have been in the Quran or Bible. It would have been clear evidence for the believers that the Quran and Bible have something in them which couldn't be verified by the ancients but could be verified by modern mankind later on. So if this "fact" isn't in the Quran or Bible then as a believer I think you should question why it isn't and verify the "fact".

But as someone pointed out upthread there are loads of things that aren't in the bible or the quran. Why have you picked out this one particularly?

questioner121 · **#15** by **questioner121** » Jan 29, 2011 6:08 pm

David M wrote:
Very little friction? I think you are unaware of how much friction there is. Look at the effects of air movement (wind) on the landscape and image that with wind speeds a whole magnitude greater.

But even if it was very little friction (and the atmosphere started stationary) over time that friction will cause the atmosphere to move with the earths rotation because there is no equivalent level of friction at the boundary of the atmosphere and space to slow it down.

Is there any proof for this.

Blackadder · **#16** by **Blackadder** » Jan 29, 2011 6:08 pm

questioner121 wrote:So if this "fact" isn't in the Quran or Bible then as a believer I think you should question why it isn't and verify the "fact".

Yes you should question why it isn't. I think you'll find the answer is that when reality contradicts the scribblings of Bronze Age desert nomads and medieval magic-believers, it's the scribblings that have a problem, not reality.

questioner121 · **#17** by **questioner121** » Jan 29, 2011 6:13 pm

David M wrote:
questioner121 wrote:2. Shouldn't a plane which flies in an opposite direction to the spin of the Earth move faster relative to the land mass below it?

Except, as you have pointed out, the atmosphere rotates with the earth and the plane is flying through that atmosphere.

Does that mean that if a plane flies from east to west will have to use alot more fuel because it's going against the atmosphere?

Blackadder · **#18** by **Blackadder** » Jan 29, 2011 6:18 pm

questioner121 wrote:
David M wrote:
Very little friction? I think you are unaware of how much friction there is. Look at the effects of air movement (wind) on the landscape and image that with wind speeds a whole magnitude greater.

But even if it was very little friction (and the atmosphere started stationary) over time that friction will cause the atmosphere to move with the earths rotation because there is no equivalent level of friction at the boundary of the atmosphere and space to slow it down.

Is there any proof for this.

Yes there is. Air isn't weightless or frictionless. It has mass and it is heavy. The pressure of the atmosphere on you right now is about 14 pounds per square inch. The heavy atmosphere is moved by the Earth's rotation. If you are really interested in the subject, look up "viscous drag". And here's a simple experimental thought for you. When objects move through the air at high speeds, the friction (or drag) of the air causes them to heat up. It happens to supersonic aircraft and it when you see a meteor shower, it is fast moving material burning up in the upper atmosphere because of air friction.

vsop44 · **#19** by **vsop44** » Jan 29, 2011 6:20 pm

Questioner 121 , Psst You forgot to question the tilt of the earth :doh:

monkeyboy · **#20** by **monkeyboy** » Jan 29, 2011 6:35 pm

At this whole thread!!

:picard: