Hart schools chief Evolution is viewed as fact in state test

DoctorE · #1 by **DoctorE** » Dec 13, 2011 9:04 pm

Hart County's school superintendent is arguing that a new test that Kentucky high school students will take for the first time next spring will treat evolution as fact, not theory, and will require schools to teach that way.

Superintendent Ricky D. Line raised the issue in recent letters and email messages to state Education Commissioner Terry Holliday and Kentucky Board of Education members. Line wants them to reconsider the "Blueprint" for Kentucky's new end-of-course test in biology.

"I have a deep concern about the increased emphasis on the evolution content required," Line wrote. "After carefully reviewing the Blueprint, I find the increase is substantial and alarming."

Line contends that the Blueprint essentially would "require students to believe that humans ... evolved from primates such as apes and ... were not created by God."

"I have a very difficult time believing that we have come to a point ... that we are teaching evolution ... as a factual occurrence, while totally omitting the creation story by a God who is bigger than all of us," he wrote. "My feeling is if the Commonwealth's site-based councils, school board members, superintendents and parents were questioned ... one would find this teaching contradictory to the majority's belief systems."

Holliday insisted Monday that Kentucky will not be teaching evolution as fact. Currently, teachers can discuss theories of creation other than evolution but they are not required to teach them.

In an earlier response to Line, Holliday wrote that end-of-course tests are intended to reflect college and career readiness and "promote more rigor and depth in traditional courses." Educators would be doing Kentucky students a disservice by "denying them the opportunity to learn science concepts required to obtain that goal," Holliday wrote.

Line, however, said Monday that Holliday's comments didn't calm his fears.

"My argument is, do we want our children to be taught these things as facts? Personally, I don't," Line said. "I don't think life on earth began as a one-celled organism. I don't think that all of us came from a common ancestor ... I don't think the Big Bang theory describes the explanation of the origin of the universe."

Continues: http://www.kentucky.com/2011/12/12/1992 ... tests.html

Animavore · #2 by **Animavore** » Dec 13, 2011 9:08 pm

She doesn't want fact thought as fact? :scratch:

matt8819 · #3 by **matt8819** » Dec 13, 2011 9:16 pm

How Is this person able to be superintendent?

Calilasseia · #4 by **Calilasseia** » Dec 13, 2011 9:22 pm

Oh look, another so-called "educator" who thinks children shouldn't be taught valid scientific fact and valid scientific theories, when said valid scientific fact and said valid scientific theories stick the middle finger to mythology-based made up shit.

Quite simply, people of this ilk should not be educating children. Fantasists who prefer mythological made up shit pulled out of the arse of piss-stained Middle Eastern nomads over reality, don't belong in science classes teaching children, and certainly don't belong in the curriculum formulation process. Will someone tell these peons that science classes exist to teach real science, not made up shit mythology?

Atheistoclast · #5 by **Atheistoclast** » Dec 14, 2011 12:48 am

Calilasseia wrote:Oh look, another so-called "educator" who thinks children shouldn't be taught valid scientific fact and valid scientific theories, when said valid scientific fact and said valid scientific theories stick the middle finger to mythology-based made up shit.

Quite simply, people of this ilk should not be educating children. Fantasists who prefer mythological made up shit pulled out of the arse of piss-stained Middle Eastern nomads over reality, don't belong in science classes teaching children, and certainly don't belong in the curriculum formulation process. Will someone tell these peons that science classes exist to teach real science, not made up shit mythology?

If I didn't know you better I would view your acerbic comments as being anti-semitic. What do you have against people from the Middle East and nomads in general? The books of the Bible were, in any case, written by the educated elite of the Jewish nation. Also, there are no "facts" in science, just observations and the interpretations we make of them.

matt8819 · #6 by **matt8819** » Dec 14, 2011 12:57 am

Atheistoclast wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:Oh look, another so-called "educator" who thinks children shouldn't be taught valid scientific fact and valid scientific theories, when said valid scientific fact and said valid scientific theories stick the middle finger to mythology-based made up shit.

Quite simply, people of this ilk should not be educating children. Fantasists who prefer mythological made up shit pulled out of the arse of piss-stained Middle Eastern nomads over reality, don't belong in science classes teaching children, and certainly don't belong in the curriculum formulation process. Will someone tell these peons that science classes exist to teach real science, not made up shit mythology?

If I didn't know you better I would view your acerbic comments as being anti-semitic. What do you have against people from the Middle East and nomads in general? The books of the Bible were, in any case, written by the educated elite of the Jewish nation. Also, there are no "facts" in science, just observations and the interpretations we make of them.

You can view your ass as being made of chocolate, that doesn't make you a hot fudge sundae.

Science is based on evidence. When the creationist version of reality has any evidence backing it up AT ALL, then it can be taught in school.

byofrcs · #7 by **byofrcs** » Dec 14, 2011 1:00 am

Atheistoclast wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:Oh look, another so-called "educator" who thinks children shouldn't be taught valid scientific fact and valid scientific theories, when said valid scientific fact and said valid scientific theories stick the middle finger to mythology-based made up shit.

Quite simply, people of this ilk should not be educating children. Fantasists who prefer mythological made up shit pulled out of the arse of piss-stained Middle Eastern nomads over reality, don't belong in science classes teaching children, and certainly don't belong in the curriculum formulation process. Will someone tell these peons that science classes exist to teach real science, not made up shit mythology?

If I didn't know you better I would view your acerbic comments as being anti-semitic. What do you have against people from the Middle East and nomads in general? The books of the Bible were, in any case, written by the educated elite of the Jewish nation. Also, there are no "facts" in science, just observations and the interpretations we make of them.

You said - "The books of the Bible were, in any case, written by the educated elite of the Jewish nation. " so we might ask you what do you have against these people ?

If that is what the "educated elite" can produce then give me the common man who can observe and interpret without making up all kinds of bullshit to justify a privileged place in a hierarchy.

Atheistoclast · #8 by **Atheistoclast** » Dec 14, 2011 1:58 am

I have been created. That is a fact. We all have been created during the period of gestation. That is also a fact. The only question that remains is who is our creator. Is it "natural processes" alone or natural process with a great dollop of magic.

klazmon · #9 by **klazmon** » Dec 14, 2011 2:56 am

Atheistoclast wrote:I have been created. That is a fact. We all have been created during the period of gestation. That is also a fact. The only question that remains is who is our creator. Is it "natural processes" alone or natural process with a great dollop of magic.

Actually you weren't created. You grew from a zygote that formed from the fusion of two gametes.

Oldskeptic · **#10** by **Oldskeptic** » Dec 14, 2011 3:49 am

Atheistoclast wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:Oh look, another so-called "educator" who thinks children shouldn't be taught valid scientific fact and valid scientific theories, when said valid scientific fact and said valid scientific theories stick the middle finger to mythology-based made up shit.

Quite simply, people of this ilk should not be educating children. Fantasists who prefer mythological made up shit pulled out of the arse of piss-stained Middle Eastern nomads over reality, don't belong in science classes teaching children, and certainly don't belong in the curriculum formulation process. Will someone tell these peons that science classes exist to teach real science, not made up shit mythology?

If I didn't know you better I would view your acerbic comments as being anti-semitic. What do you have against people from the Middle East and nomads in general? The books of the Bible were, in any case, written by the educated elite of the Jewish nation. Also, there are no "facts" in science, just observations and the interpretations we make of them.

You are not the person that should be pointing a finger at anyone for being anti semitic.

Oldskeptic · **#11** by **Oldskeptic** » Dec 14, 2011 3:55 am

Matt wrote:
You can view your ass as being made of chocolate, that doesn't make you a hot fudge sundae.

When I read this I heard Woody Harrelson's voice in my head.

MrFungus420 · **#12** by **MrFungus420** » Dec 14, 2011 5:55 am

Atheistoclast wrote:I have been created. That is a fact. We all have been created during the period of gestation. That is also a fact. The only question that remains is who is our creator. Is it "natural processes" alone or natural process with a great dollop of magic.

And since magic isn't real, we know the answer...

Bribase · **#13** by **Bribase** » Dec 14, 2011 10:53 am

The Kentucky comissioner of eduction replies.

Dear Ricky,
Thank you for your patience in waiting for our response to your attached letter expressing concerns on the end-of-course exam content for biology. We wanted to give you a thorough and accurate response, and it took some time for research to be completed by our legal and curriculum staffs. I am copying the members of the Kentucky Board of Education on the response, since they also were e-mailed a copy of your letter.
In science, a theory is a statement of general ideas that explains many observations by natural means. To a scientist, the word “theory” is a very precise term to identify a concept that has great utility in explaining phenomena in the natural world. Ideas only rise to the level of a theory in science if they have withstood much scrutiny and are exceptionally useful in explaining a wide variety of independent observations. Any theory can be altered or replaced if new observations or new scientific evidence cannot be adequately explained by it. In science, facts never become theories. Rather, theories explain facts. No theory is immune to revision or replacement should new evidence surface. There is a substantial difference between the "everyday" meaning of the word "theory" and the scientific meaning of the word. An idea is often labeled a theory for the purpose of painting it as little more than a guess. This use of “theory” demonstrates a lack of understanding of the scientific meaning of the term. Referring to biological evolution as a theory for the purpose of contesting it would be counterproductive, since scientists only grant the status of theory to well-tested ideas.
Additionally, science is not a system of belief. To ask if a scientist ‘believes’ in the theory of evolution is an improper question because the term ‘belief’ implies a position or opinion based on faith. A biologist would properly say he/she understands and acknowledges the evidence supporting the theory of evolution. Belief is an act of faith and is not necessarily concerned with the availability of supporting evidence. For this reason, beliefs are not considered to be within the realm of science. Moreover, the federal courts have ruled that creation science, a religious concept or belief, is not science at all. [See Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, 400 F.Supp.2d 707, 764 (E.D.Pa.2005); McLean v. Ark. Bd. of Educ., 529 F.Supp. 1255, 1259 (E.D.Ark.1982) (dismissing “creation science” as “simply not a science”).] Therefore, it is not considered relevant content for a purely science classroom.
Since college and career readiness is our goal for all students, we would be doing them a disservice by denying them the opportunity to learn science concepts required to obtain that goal. Evolutionary theory is one of the foundational components of modern biology, and it most certainly plays a significant part in college biology coursework. The ACT QualityCore® biology end-of-course objectives are designed to reflect research-based college- and career-ready standards as well as promote more rigor and depth in traditional courses.
Finally, Kentucky’s Core Academic Standards for Science and Core Content for Science Assessment, version 4.1, outline the minimum required content that all students should have the opportunity to learn in order to graduate. The QualityCore® end-of-course test for biology does expand from our current minimum standards. The Kentucky Core Academic Standards and Core Content for Assessment 4.1 contain two (of seven) Big Ideas that are reported under the category Life Science. Those Big Ideas are Unity & Diversity (UD) and Biological Change (BC). The Big Idea of Biological Change contains only content standards related to biological evolution. The concept of evolution already exists within these standards and has been assessed in the Commonwealth since those standards were adopted in 2006.
I appreciate your viewpoint and hope this information assists you in understanding KDE’s position. Thank you for all that you do to positively impact the lives of the students in your school district.

Sincerely,

Terry Holliday

Shrunk · **#14** by **Shrunk** » Dec 14, 2011 2:40 pm

Absolutely made my day. Even in Kentucky, sanity can still prevail.

BTW, if you click on the link in Bribase's post above, you can read the full text of Line's letter. The guy should not be allowed to hold any position of authority.

Onyx8 · **#15** by **Onyx8** » Dec 14, 2011 8:05 pm

Thank you for all that you do to positively impact the lives of the students in your school district.

Sincerely,

Terry Holliday

They really should make him fall on his sword as he kinda promised to do.

trevp · **#16** by **trevp** » Dec 15, 2011 5:00 pm

Atheistoclast wrote:
Also, there are no "facts" in science, just observations and the interpretations we make of them.

Wrong. If observations can be reliably reproduced by different workers, these observations become "facts".

trevp · **#17** by **trevp** » Dec 15, 2011 5:03 pm

Atheistoclast wrote:I have been created. That is a fact. We all have been created during the period of gestation. That is also a fact. The only question that remains is who is our creator. Is it "natural processes" alone or natural process with a great dollop of magic.

As you have previously claimed that there are no "facts" in science, I presume that you are being unscientific here!

matt8819 · **#18** by **matt8819** » Dec 15, 2011 8:31 pm

Religious Fucknut wrote:I don't think life on earth began as a one-celled organism. I don't think that all of us came from a common ancestor

Uhh....

amateur · **#19** by **amateur** » Dec 16, 2011 3:14 am

"I have a very difficult time believing that we have come to a point ... that we are teaching evolution ... as a factual occurrence, while totally omitting the creation story by a God who is bigger than all of us," he wrote. "My feeling is if the Commonwealth's site-based councils, school board members, superintendents and parents were questioned ... one would find this teaching contradictory to the majority's belief systems."

I have a very difficult time believing that we have come to a point ... that we are teaching heliocentrism... as a factual occurrence, while totally omitting our ancient and holy scriptures that clearly state that Sun is a divine being who makes a round trip around earth on a daily basis in his golden chariot. My feeling is if the Commonwealth's site-based councils, school board members, superintendents and parents were questioned ... one would find this teaching contradictory to the majority of Hindu's belief system.

"My argument is, do we want our children to be taught these things as facts? Personally, I don't," Line said. "I don't think life on earth began as a one-celled organism. I don't think that all of us came from a common ancestor ... I don't think the Big Bang theory describes the explanation of the origin of the universe."

My argument is, do we want our children to be taught these things as facts? Personally, I don't... I don't think Sun is just a big ball of hot burning gas. I don't think Earth revolves around Sun ... I don't think the Nuclear Fusion describes the explanation of the source of Sun's stupendous heat and energy.
-----
I think its high time Hindus take their beliefs seriously and fight against the conspiracy called western science! Come on, hydrogen atoms are microscopic, how can they produce that kind of heat energy. It has to be magic!!!:)

*Edited for some typos and left over statements from copy paste

Spearthrower · **#20** by **Spearthrower** » Dec 16, 2011 5:28 pm

klazmon wrote:
Atheistoclast wrote:I have been created. That is a fact. We all have been created during the period of gestation. That is also a fact. The only question that remains is who is our creator. Is it "natural processes" alone or natural process with a great dollop of magic.

Actually you weren't created. You grew from a zygote that formed from the fusion of two gametes.

'Evolved' would have been a better choice of word than 'created'....

However, I do have to wonder whether Atheistoclast thinks that the atoms that form babies literally pop into existence.