How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

Spin-off from "Dialog on 'Creationists read this' "

Incl. intelligent design, belief in divine creation

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Re: How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

#3061  Postby Cito di Pense » Mar 10, 2019 5:49 pm

Jayjay should probably try a forward modeling approach and, instead of looking at talking apes and concluding that they were inevitable from the creative intelligence of the biome, see if he can predict talking apes from trilobites.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

#3062  Postby Alan B » Mar 10, 2019 6:09 pm

JJ Mode wrote:Let me see, now! Trilobites...
:think:
I have NO BELIEF in the existence of a God or gods. I do not have to offer evidence nor do I have to determine absence of evidence because I do not ASSERT that a God does or does not or gods do or do not exist.
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Re: How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

#3063  Postby Jayjay4547 » Mar 17, 2019 2:45 am

Cito di Pense wrote:Jayjay should probably try a forward modeling approach and, instead of looking at talking apes and concluding that they were inevitable from the creative intelligence of the biome, see if he can predict talking apes from trilobites.


I've been a guest worker in Namibia for a while (and for another week) so missed a couple of posts. You are off the mark when you claim I am cribbing off some unidentified other creationist.

It's very clear, considering what has happened since trilobites were common, that life on this planet has developed hugely creatively, measured by the appearance and then persistence of novel functionality. Just consider the internet. And if you want something more clearly biological, consider human speech.

What might not be so clear to you but I think is the case, is that this creativity is associated with large biomes. When land bridges have formed, land animal species have tended to invade smaller areas from larger ones. I admit, Not always, for example successive tranches of hominoids invaded the Eurasian landmass from the somewhat smaller Africa. But as a rough guide, so that the island of Guernsey hasn't innovated as much as has Africa. According to Wikipedia, the Island effect or Fosters's rule is that on small islands species may grow bigger or smaller. I'm suggesting, that is the limit of the creative genius associated with small areas. A counter argument would be that small islands tend to be ephemeral, so Guernsey could have produced human speech, given a bit more time.

We associate genius with the human intellect and you might be reluctant to associate it with biomes. Fenrir doesn't think a laptop is creative. Maybe so. But a massively linked system of PCs with server nodes and programmed with AI? Maybe there has been genius around this planet long before humankind came along and our brains and language, enable us to express a copy of that genius. So, in that we might imitate nature. A riff on that is that genius is often associated with something outside the individual brain, as in the Muses. Maybe genius is no more a unique quality of humans than is gravity.

Biomes are more creative than you. Get used to it.

So the line I'm onto is about genius and the creativity of something bigger than we are, something we are embedded in. Then your challenge that I be able to predict humans from trilobites, is contrary to my sense.
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Re: How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

#3064  Postby Sendraks » Mar 17, 2019 9:06 am

Jayjay4547 wrote:So the line I'm onto is about genius and the creativity of something bigger than we are, something we are embedded in. Then your challenge that I be able to predict humans from trilobites, is contrary to my sense.


Something non-predictive. Non-testable. And therefore, bollocks.
"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion." - Arthur C Clarke

"'Science doesn't know everything' - Well science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it'd stop" - Dara O'Brian
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