Information creation in biological systems

Incl. intelligent design, belief in divine creation

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Re: Information creation in biological systems

#21  Postby Cito di Pense » Nov 21, 2016 4:58 am

Creationists are ALWAYS working from a pre-selected conclusion backwards toward a premise they can insist will imply their conclusion. You know this because the conclusion is always the same. If you've already worked out a proper proof, then you can play it backwards, but that's not what they're doing, so your job becomes finding the step that does not proceed from the one before it.

In this case, the discovery you make about creationists is that they're incapable of storing information (all broadcast, no reception), and that's probably why they're stuck writing incoherent 'arguments', always with the same conclusion. This isn't about reasoning at all. It's obsessive. It's not that other people aren't, but sometimes there's some heavier lifting going on, and Rumraket's link to Shallit's blog shows an example of this.
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Information creation in biological systems

#22  Postby Shrunk » Nov 21, 2016 12:14 pm

And also, though I believe most of you are already familiar with this, I would be remiss if I didn't post this account of the ID Creationists' most spectacular and public failure to quantify "information" in their own terms:

http://www.softwarematters.org/mathgrrl.html
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Re: Information creation in biological systems

#23  Postby Cito di Pense » Nov 21, 2016 12:48 pm

Shrunk wrote:And also, though I believe most of you are already familiar with this, I would be remiss if I didn't post this account of the ID Creationists' most spectacular and public failure to quantify "information" in their own terms:

http://www.softwarematters.org/mathgrrl.html


Or 'awareness' if you're following the Little Idiot nonsense. There's a pattern, here. They can't or won't do it, even in their own terms, because all they're interested in is making a noise. They throw shit on a wall and see if anything sticks. Some people, like Dembski, throw stickier stuff than LI (who is just trying to imitate a style of apologetics the understanding of which is well beyond his capabilities).

From the above link:

When asked for links to the answers they claimed to have produced, these IDCists either referred to comments that didn't actually contain such answers or simply resorted to insulting those requesting the links.


This is what I mean by style.

What I was surprised to learn was just how little IDCists know or care about the actual practice of science and how willing they are to out and out lie in defense of their position.


This should not be surprising. It's tempting to continue to give prevaricators a chance, but it never bears fruit. Documenting their failures is far more productive than arguing with them or lamenting their deficiencies.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Information creation in biological systems

#24  Postby scott1328 » Nov 21, 2016 1:48 pm

The creationist movement exists not to convince the non-believers, but rather, to reassure the believers that someone somewhere has checked into all this sciency stuff and has an answer for it and that they needn't bother their heads about it.
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Re: Information creation in biological systems

#25  Postby Shrunk » Nov 21, 2016 1:50 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:This should not be surprising. It's tempting to continue to give prevaricators a chance, but it never bears fruit. Documenting their failures is far more productive than arguing with them or lamenting their deficiencies.


Quite. I had a discussion on another forum with VJ Torley, one of the chief protagonists in the mathgrrl affair. He claimed to have answered mathgrrl's questions, but the link he provided contained nothing even resembling an answer. When I pointed out this oversight, he was never heard from again:

http://sandwalk.blogspot.ca/2015/11/ans ... 4711789441

It also happens that one of the IDiots has inadvertently admitted that CSI can, indeed, be produced by natural, non-intelligent processes, although neither he nor any of his colleagues seem to have yet realized he has done so.

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/post1809165.html
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Re: Information creation in biological systems

#26  Postby John Platko » Mar 17, 2017 9:50 pm

Mononoke wrote:So someone just told me information cannot be created in biological systems. What does this mean for evolution? Is it even true? A quick response is appreciated. I have a maths and statistics background so no need to dumb answers down too much


This is an old thread but in case anyone is still interested in a serious answer to this, I will supply a quick response.

Understanding it - perhaps not so quick.
I like to imagine ...
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