Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

Creationist VP-elect of the USA

Incl. intelligent design, belief in divine creation

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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#181  Postby hackenslash » Oct 31, 2018 6:24 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Animavore wrote:Creationism has been struck down by Christian, Republican judges before. It doesn't stand a chance.

Good luck showing biological science is a religion also. It doesn't fall under any definition of the term.


That has already been done for me by Professor Michael Ruse, himself an evolutionist and Darwinist in his book, Darwinism as Religion: What Literature Tells Us about Evolution: https://global.oup.com/academic/product ... b&lang=en&


He didn't show it, he asserted it. He was wrong.

Also, biological science is NOT Darwinism. Darwin is largely irrelevant to biological science, except for elucidating the mechanism behind biodiversity.
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#182  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Oct 31, 2018 8:18 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Animavore wrote:Creationism has been struck down by Christian, Republican judges before. It doesn't stand a chance.

Good luck showing biological science is a religion also. It doesn't fall under any definition of the term.


That has already been done for me by Professor Michael Ruse, himself an evolutionist and Darwinist in his book, Darwinism as Religion: What Literature Tells Us about Evolution: https://global.oup.com/academic/product ... b&lang=en&

The enlarged bit in your post, verifies that you're still invested in polemics, not honest discussion or reality.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#183  Postby felltoearth » Nov 01, 2018 12:27 pm

From the link

    Argues that the theory of evolution given by Charles Darwin in the nineteenth century has always functioned as much as a secular form of religion as anything purely scientific

    Through the words of novelists and poets, Michael Ruse argues that Darwin took us from the secure world of Christian faith into a darker, less friendly world of chance and lack of meaning


So what. None of this has any bearing if Evolution by Natural Selection is true. Fucking grow up.
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#184  Postby Rumraket » Nov 01, 2018 2:30 pm

It has always baffled me how much time religionutters waste arguing about the consequences of accepting the reality of biological evolution. It is difficult to think of something that could more strongly reveal that the "evolution debate" itsn't actually about facts, science, or truth. It is about the feelings of religionutters and their sense of self and purpose in life.

Which makes it doubly mysterious to me, because surely every single thinking person has come to terms already in the formative years of early childhood, that there's a difference between what is true, and what you would LIKE? It really reveals how the "make-believe" aspect of theism is in large part responsible for keeping religions in existence.
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#185  Postby Wortfish » Nov 02, 2018 7:43 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
Animavore wrote:Creationism has been struck down by Christian, Republican judges before. It doesn't stand a chance.

Good luck showing biological science is a religion also. It doesn't fall under any definition of the term.


That has already been done for me by Professor Michael Ruse, himself an evolutionist and Darwinist in his book, Darwinism as Religion: What Literature Tells Us about Evolution: https://global.oup.com/academic/product ... b&lang=en&

The enlarged bit in your post, verifies that you're still invested in polemics, not honest discussion or reality.


See below: https://www.the-scientist.com/first-per ... kins-49903

Amid stacks of books in the front room of his house near Oxford University, writer and evolutionist Richard Dawkins....
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#186  Postby Wortfish » Nov 02, 2018 7:45 pm

Rumraket wrote:It has always baffled me how much time religionutters waste arguing about the consequences of accepting the reality of biological evolution. It is difficult to think of something that could more strongly reveal that the "evolution debate" itsn't actually about facts, science, or truth. It is about the feelings of religionutters and their sense of self and purpose in life.


It depends on how "evolution" is defined.
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#187  Postby Cito di Pense » Nov 02, 2018 7:47 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Rumraket wrote:It has always baffled me how much time religionutters waste arguing about the consequences of accepting the reality of biological evolution. It is difficult to think of something that could more strongly reveal that the "evolution debate" itsn't actually about facts, science, or truth. It is about the feelings of religionutters and their sense of self and purpose in life.


It depends on how "evolution" is defined.


Some things do depend on how something else is defined, and that's your problem with evolution. Isn't that your basic problem, Wortfish, in quibbling that one thing that isn't self-evident to you depends on another? Sometimes, you just have to be able to keep track of a couple of different concepts at once. If you can't do that, then you won't be able to contribute substantively to this discussion.
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#188  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Nov 02, 2018 8:45 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
Animavore wrote:Creationism has been struck down by Christian, Republican judges before. It doesn't stand a chance.

Good luck showing biological science is a religion also. It doesn't fall under any definition of the term.


That has already been done for me by Professor Michael Ruse, himself an evolutionist and Darwinist in his book, Darwinism as Religion: What Literature Tells Us about Evolution: https://global.oup.com/academic/product ... b&lang=en&

The enlarged bit in your post, verifies that you're still invested in polemics, not honest discussion or reality.


See below.

No, I won't. Your incessant and repetitive lies have long since eroded any interest I might have had in reading the links you post.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#189  Postby Wortfish » Nov 07, 2018 11:31 am

With the Republicans extending their Senate majority, we can expect Mike Pence to be pushing Trump to appoint more pro-life and pro-creation judges leading to creationism being taught in schools and daily prayers being part of the schedule. Teachers may be ordered to even rip out pages from biology textbooks that make reference to evolution.
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#190  Postby Alan B » Nov 07, 2018 11:38 am

In your view, is that a 'good thing'?
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#191  Postby Scot Dutchy » Nov 07, 2018 11:43 am

I dont think he understands what winning the House means for the Democrats.
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#192  Postby The_Piper » Nov 07, 2018 12:26 pm

Wortfish wrote:With the Republicans extending their Senate majority, we can expect Mike Pence to be pushing Trump to appoint more pro-life and pro-creation judges leading to creationism being taught in schools and daily prayers being part of the schedule. Teachers may be ordered to even rip out pages from biology textbooks that make reference to evolution.

One shouldn't expect that.
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#193  Postby hackenslash » Nov 07, 2018 12:29 pm

Wortfish wrote:With the Republicans extending their Senate majority, we can expect Mike Pence to be pushing Trump to appoint more pro-life and pro-creation judges leading to creationism being taught in schools and daily prayers being part of the schedule. Teachers may be ordered to even rip out pages from biology textbooks that make reference to evolution.


To have creationism taught in schools would require an amendment to the constitution, disestablishing the establishment clause, which requires a two-thirds majority in Congress.

You seem to have no better idea of how your government works than you do about anything else.
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#194  Postby Wortfish » Nov 07, 2018 1:24 pm

hackenslash wrote:
Wortfish wrote:With the Republicans extending their Senate majority, we can expect Mike Pence to be pushing Trump to appoint more pro-life and pro-creation judges leading to creationism being taught in schools and daily prayers being part of the schedule. Teachers may be ordered to even rip out pages from biology textbooks that make reference to evolution.


To have creationism taught in schools would require an amendment to the constitution, disestablishing the establishment clause, which requires a two-thirds majority in Congress.

You seem to have no better idea of how your government works than you do about anything else.


Prior to 1859, creationism WAS taught in public schools in the United States. That's because it was treated as a scientific fact. The constitution only prohibits the establishment of religion or non-religion by the national government, as is the case in the UK. It says nothing about what schools at the state level can teach. So, really, it is now just a matter of time before a Trump/Pence-appointed judge either allows creationist and anti-Darwinist ideas to be explored in the science classroom.
Last edited by Wortfish on Nov 07, 2018 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#195  Postby Wortfish » Nov 07, 2018 1:27 pm

Alan B wrote:In your view, is that a 'good thing'?

Depends. It would be nice to see some health warnings issued in the classroom regarding the theory of evolution. Teachers can inform students that most scientists think it is well-supported, but scientific facts have a nasty habit of being overturned as new evidence emerges and old hypotheses are rejected. They can also teach their pupils that 50 years after Darwin published his famous work, most biologists had come to reject the idea that natural selection explained the diversity of life even though they fully accepted the theory of common descent (something that many ID proponents believe).
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#196  Postby Wortfish » Nov 07, 2018 1:29 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:I dont think he understands what winning the House means for the Democrats.

Does the House approve federal and SC judges or the Senate?
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#197  Postby The_Piper » Nov 07, 2018 3:19 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Alan B wrote:In your view, is that a 'good thing'?

Depends. It would be nice to see some health warnings issued in the classroom regarding the theory of evolution. Teachers can inform students that most scientists think it is well-supported, but scientific facts have a nasty habit of being overturned as new evidence emerges and old hypotheses are rejected. They can also teach their pupils that 50 years after Darwin published his famous work, most biologists had come to reject the idea that natural selection explained the diversity of life even though they fully accepted the theory of common descent (something that many ID proponents believe).

:point:
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#198  Postby The_Piper » Nov 07, 2018 3:20 pm

Wortfish wrote:
hackenslash wrote:
Wortfish wrote:With the Republicans extending their Senate majority, we can expect Mike Pence to be pushing Trump to appoint more pro-life and pro-creation judges leading to creationism being taught in schools and daily prayers being part of the schedule. Teachers may be ordered to even rip out pages from biology textbooks that make reference to evolution.


To have creationism taught in schools would require an amendment to the constitution, disestablishing the establishment clause, which requires a two-thirds majority in Congress.

You seem to have no better idea of how your government works than you do about anything else.


Prior to 1859, creationism WAS taught in public schools in the United States. That's because it was treated as a scientific fact. The constitution only prohibits the establishment of religion or non-religion by the national government, as is the case in the UK. It says nothing about what schools at the state level can teach. So, really, it is now just a matter of time before a Trump/Pence-appointed judge either allows creationist and anti-Darwinist ideas to be explored in the science classroom.

:point: 1859 :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#199  Postby hackenslash » Nov 07, 2018 3:34 pm

Wortfish wrote:Prior to 1859, creationism WAS taught in public schools in the United States. That's because it was treated as a scientific fact.


Irrelevant, just for a change. It never was a 'scientific fact', and the fact that you precede the word 'fact' with 'scientific' is yet another indicator of your ignorance of just how science is conducted. There is no such thing as a 'scientific fact', that phrase is used by ignorant rubes in an attempt to lend their vacuous cortical eructations weight where there is none. Facts are facts.

The simple fact is that there is no good evidence in support of any creation fantasy, and there is no basis on which it could ever have been treated as scientific.

The constitution only prohibits the establishment of religion or non-religion by the national government, as is the case in the UK. It says nothing about what schools at the state level can teach. So, really, it is now just a matter of time before a Trump/Pence-appointed judge either allows creationist and anti-Darwinist ideas to be explored in the science classroom.


The contradiction here is utterly delicious, and shows just how rotted your mind has become by your silly masturbation fantasy. You begin by saying that the government can't do this, then say that Drumpf and Dunce are going to do exactly that by appointing a federal judge that will allow it. This IS the government interfering with religious practice by establishing cretinism as a preferred religion. It will categorically fail the Lemon test and, more importantly, the laugh test, because creationism has no purpose other than as fodder for comedy.

It's bollocks.
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Re: Mike Pence: "Evolution is just a theory"

#200  Postby SkyMutt » Nov 07, 2018 5:45 pm

All publicly funded schools in the US are subject to the Constitution of the United States (including the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment), contrary to the false assertion made by W. fish above (see "Knowing the Equal Protection Clause" | Laws.com).
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