MrFungus420 wrote:

hackenslash wrote:On the contrary. Since your preposterous fucking magic man doesn't exist, we can say with certainty that he can do exactly fuck all. Flood debates never end in tears for atheists, because the evidence says that your flood was a fucking fantasy.

I don't know about that.

I've had tears of laughter after seeing some of the tortuous attempts to explain the Flood.

I might have to concede that point.

Lion IRC wrote:

hackenslash wrote:On the contrary. Since your preposterous fucking magic man doesn't exist, we can say with certainty that he can do exactly fuck all. Flood debates never end in tears for atheists, because the evidence says that your flood was a fucking fantasy.

That is a different argument.
You dont need to waste pages and pages arguing the fine details of MRCA or shipbuilding or plate tectonics and theists dont need to EITHER. You lose because the Noahs Ark account INCLUDES the assistance of a divine Being and what you are trying to do now is have the debate with God airbrushed out. In fact your entire case rests on the claim BY YOU that God does not exist. Its a non sequitur and you know it.

Since it requires magic, the nonexistence of magic is my argument against it.

<singing>If you believe in magic...

hackenslash wrote:Don't talk crap. If your argument includes the intervention of a fucking sky-daddy, then you need to establish the existence of this ludicrous entity before you can even get to the flud actually happening (which it didn't, by the way, as ALL the evidence demonstrates beautifully). You don't just lose, you haven't got a fucking fight, and you know it.

Not remotely fucking sorry.

Dammit, Hack. I have to disagree again.

It is very sorry.

No, I was saying I'm not sorry. I can think of no worse proposition than the actual existence of this immoral fuckwit.

hackenslash wrote:No, I was saying I'm not sorry. I can think of no worse proposition than the actual existence of this immoral fuckwit.

OH!

In that case I am sorry.

I agree fully.

Lion IRC wrote:

hackenslash wrote:On the contrary. Since your preposterous fucking magic man doesn't exist, we can say with certainty that he can do exactly fuck all. Flood debates never end in tears for atheists, because the evidence says that your flood was a fucking fantasy.

That is a different argument.
You dont need to waste pages and pages arguing the fine details of MRCA or shipbuilding or plate tectonics and theists dont need to EITHER. You lose because the Noahs Ark account INCLUDES the assistance of a divine Being and what you are trying to do now is have the debate with God airbrushed out. In fact your entire case rests on the claim BY YOU that God does not exist. Its a non sequitur and you know it. This thread would have some traction for you if it was titled....

Ordinary Guy Expects Unusually Heavy Downpour
- Tries to Build Really Big Boat and Fill it With Animals All By Himself

You lose.



Sorry!

I don't remember the story including that God did anything to build the boat, collect the animals or indeed anything other than telling Noah to do all that. How do you get to the place where God did all the heavy lifting? God simply told Noah what to do and then pissed off back home to get the taps turned on.

MrFungus420 wrote:

Lion IRC wrote:

Genesis 6:13 wrote:
So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.

This is why Flood debates always end in tears for atheists.
The story begins with God saying what He is going to do.
You cannot "debate" what God is and is not capable of doing.
For an atheist to attempt this it is like a boxer leading with their chin.

Yet, amazingly, people like the Chinese never even noticed that they were entirely killed off by a global flood.

There is not one, single indication (i.e. evidence) that a global flood ever occurred. It's that simple.

So, if you want to say that it was done magically, and hidden magically, go ahead because that is all that you've got...magical explanations.

Not to labor the point but people who are alive today are the decendents of people who did NOT drown in the flood.

According to your turgid book of preposterous wibble, they're all descended from the 8 that were on board. Of course, you could only accept such moronic drivel if you had no understanding of the importance of genetic diversity.

You still have no argument.

Onyx8 wrote: don't remember the story including that God did anything to build the boat, collect the animals or indeed anything other than telling Noah to do all that. How do you get to the place where God did all the heavy lifting? God simply told Noah what to do and then pissed off back home to get the taps turned on.

It's simple deduction. Obviously, it would be practically impossible for an alcoholic sailor his his twilight years to collect every single species of animal on the planet and keep them alive with bronze age technology on a wooden ship so massive it can't even float. I think Lion would agree with us here. So far so good, m i rite?

Instead of admitting this could never have taken place beyond a reasonable doubt, however, Lion concludes that magic was responsible.

So close, and yet, you've tripped over the finish line again, Lion.

hackenslash wrote:According to your turgid book of preposterous wibble, they're all descended from the 8 that were on board. Of course, you could only accept such moronic drivel if you had no understanding of the importance of genetic diversity.

You still have no argument.

Eight post-flood humans is eight MORE than the number of humans on earth at the time when there were NO humans on earth. Seems like eight is a good head start for MRCA genetic diversity compared to starting out at zero.

Lion IRC wrote:

MrFungus420 wrote:

Yet, amazingly, people like the Chinese never even noticed that they were entirely killed off by a global flood.

There is not one, single indication (i.e. evidence) that a global flood ever occurred. It's that simple.

So, if you want to say that it was done magically, and hidden magically, go ahead because that is all that you've got...magical explanations.

Not to labor the point but people who are alive today are the decendents of people who did NOT drown in the flood.

Yes of course they are descendants of people who did NOT drown in the global flood - since there never was such a flood. They are also descendants of people who were not casualties of Ragnarok - for the same reason.

Honestly, having a discussion with a person who is willing - even remotely - to consider that Noah's flood story is true ...

It's every bit as productive as having a discussion with a person whose believes his brain has been sucked out by little green men.

Which demonstrates your complete lack of understanding. In the time when there were no humans on Earth, the antecedents of humans carried plenty of diversity, so diversity didn't start out at zero. With a population of only 8 individuals representing the whole species, the species would have been extinct within probably about 100 years.

Perhaps educating yourself with regard to the concept of a minimum viable population would serve you better than your silly book of ignorant fuckwittery.

hackenslash wrote:Which demonstrates your complete lack of understanding. In the time when there were no humans on Earth, the antecedents of humans carried plenty of diversity, so diversity didn't start out at zero. With a population of only 8 individuals representing the whole species, the species would have been extinct within probably about 100 years.

Perhaps educating yourself with regard to the concept of a minimum viable population would serve you better than your silly book of ignorant fuckwittery.

I dont buy that whole..."never fewer than 2000" thing.
Sorry.

Blitzkrebs wrote:

Onyx8 wrote: don't remember the story including that God did anything to build the boat, collect the animals or indeed anything other than telling Noah to do all that. How do you get to the place where God did all the heavy lifting? God simply told Noah what to do and then pissed off back home to get the taps turned on.

It's simple deduction. Obviously, it would be practically impossible for an alcoholic sailor his his twilight years to collect every single species of animal on the planet and keep them alive with bronze age technology on a wooden ship so massive it can't even float. I think Lion would agree with us here. So far so good, m i rite?

Instead of admitting this could never have taken place beyond a reasonable doubt, however, Lion concludes that magic was responsible.

This is why magical thinking can't be refuted. If we start with the premise "God can magick anything" it's unfalsifiable.

I can assert that the Flood happened in 2009, and God just magicked all the geology, archaelogy, history, not to mention our memories, to hide this fact. Believers can invent any explanation they want, and handwave away all the contradictions and lack of evidence and confounding facts with "God magicked it to look that way".

Welcome to religion, where doctrine trumps reality.

Lion IRC wrote:

hackenslash wrote:According to your turgid book of preposterous wibble, they're all descended from the 8 that were on board. Of course, you could only accept such moronic drivel if you had no understanding of the importance of genetic diversity.

You still have no argument.

Eight post-flood humans is eight MORE than the number of humans on earth at the time when there were NO humans on earth. Seems like eight is a good head start for MRCA genetic diversity compared to starting out at zero.

Bullshit. Humans didn't just magically appear. They were borne out of populations that were similar enough to them that interbeeding was possible.

I can't believe you're still peddling this nonsense.

Lion IRC wrote:I dont buy that whole..."never fewer than 2000" thing.
Sorry.

Interestingly, reality doesn't give a flying fuck what you buy. The concept of a minimum viable population is well established, and for very good reasons. Without genetic diversity (something we're sadly lacking in humans despite a population of almost 7 billion), recessive genes are rapidly expressed, leading to all sorts of horrible disease. These are the hard facts from reality, and your buying it makes absolutely no difference to the fact that it's actually true.

Still no argument.

Lion IRC wrote:

hackenslash wrote:Which demonstrates your complete lack of understanding. In the time when there were no humans on Earth, the antecedents of humans carried plenty of diversity, so diversity didn't start out at zero. With a population of only 8 individuals representing the whole species, the species would have been extinct within probably about 100 years.

Perhaps educating yourself with regard to the concept of a minimum viable population would serve you better than your silly book of ignorant fuckwittery.

I dont buy that whole..."never fewer than 2000" thing.
Sorry.

Do you know what? Fuck inheritence too. If we're going to pick and choose scientific explanations with nothing other than our whims, then I've decided I don't want my father's brown hair anymore.

Lion IRC wrote:

hackenslash wrote:According to your turgid book of preposterous wibble, they're all descended from the 8 that were on board. Of course, you could only accept such moronic drivel if you had no understanding of the importance of genetic diversity.

You still have no argument.

Eight post-flood humans is eight MORE than the number of humans on earth at the time when there were NO humans on earth. Seems like eight is a good head start for MRCA genetic diversity compared to starting out at zero.

Any thoughts on which of these eight righteous individuals was carrying the clap for the benefit of future generations?

I still don't have fair hair, Lion.

Blitzkrebs wrote:I still don't have fair hair, Lion.

Your parents didn't do the magic right, Blitzkrebs:

Genesis 30:37 And Jacob took him rods of green poplar, and of the hazel and chesnut tree; and pilled white strakes in them, and made the white appear which was in the rods.
30:38 And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink, that they should conceive when they came to drink.
30:39 And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.

So you needed to be conceived around the time your parents were looking at blond sticks. Or something like that.

Although this method has never actually been replicated I have no doubt it's true, because it's in a book of bronze age mythology. I'm sure Lion IRC will be happy to explain the finer points of how the magic works.