Questioning Darwin

Incl. intelligent design, belief in divine creation

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Re: Questioning Darwin

#1661  Postby Calilasseia » Mar 30, 2014 7:03 am

Alan C wrote:
questioner121 wrote:I'd hate it, I'd be disgusted and wouldn't want to see them. I'd be ashamed to speak to my friends and other people.


You know, this is the sort of thing that can lead to sick shit like 'honour' killings. Religion can be so de-humanising.


Funny how the response, all too often, from mythology fetishists consists of "kill whoever doesn't conform". Oh wait, it's not "funny", except in the sense of "bizarre", it's bloody disgusting.

Your daughter makes her own choice of who she loves and wants to be intimate with? Kill the slut.

Your neighbour happens to have a different take on what the mythology is purportedly telling us? Kill the heretic.

Another neighbour happens to decide that the mythology doesn't constitute fact? Kill the apostate.

Another neighbour happens to prefer a different mythology? Kill the infidel.

I make no excuses whatsoever, for calling this mentality diseased.
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Re: Questioning Darwin

#1662  Postby Agrippina » Mar 30, 2014 7:38 am

questioner121 wrote:

Fearing God and obeying God means working righteous and being a decent human being.

How can you fear someone, and claim that they are "righteous" and that your fear of them makes you a "decent human being?"

I don't know your holy book, so I can only quote for you from the Old Testament, regarding the "righteousness" and "decency" of a god who commands thus:

Leviticus 10:1-2 AND Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.
Leviticus 24:16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.
Deuteronomy 13:6-15 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, Let us go and worship other gods gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other , do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.


My definition of being a "decent human being" definitely does not include stoning, burning, or putting to death, the people who I love, or my friends, or anyone else because they don't respect something I believe in. But hey, that's just me, I'm obviously not understanding what "righteous" means.

Being decent means not swearing, fornicating, looking lustfully at others of the opposite sex unless you're married to them and treating others with respect and honour.

Bullshit. Being decent means that you allow other people to live their lives the way they want to, that you do no harm to other people, or animals, that you try to not allow the enjoyment of your own life infringe on the rights of other people to enjoy theirs, that you do your best to make the people who care about you, not worry about you, and to be happy in your company. Then if you add taking from your own prosperity to give to people, and animals, that don't have as much as you have, then in my opinion, you are righteous and decent. Swearing, having sex with people to whom you aren't married, looking at the beauty of other people, and appreciating it, are not terrible things in my opinion, and treating people with respect, I think it depends on the people. I do not respect people who are cruel to animals, who believe that dogs are too dirty to be allowed in from the cold, or that cats are evil, or that any living thing that bothers you, or that you wish to eat, should just be killed, and honour, to me, means that you behave in a way that will make other people want to respect you. None of this has anything to do with holy books or mythical sky monsters who dictate that you should kill your brother because he doesn't grovel to the god's narcissism.

Let me ask you this. If you're wife was having an affair behind your back how would you feel?

If my husband was having an affair, I'd discuss it with him, perhaps offer him a way out of the relationship so that he could be happy, and allow me to find someone who does want to be with me. I've done this, and it worked, and we remain good friends. No shame involved.

If your daughter was seeing many boyfriends how would you feel?

I would teach her about protecting herself against unwanted pregnancies and diseases, and tell her to be careful not to commit herself to someone who would want to own her.

I'd hate it, I'd be disgusted and wouldn't want to see them.

There's no honour in that. Disowning your child because she's following her natural instinct to find a mate. That's just cruel and inhumane.

I'd be ashamed to speak to my friends and other people.

What the hell do other people's opinions matter? You have no right to criticise them, and they need to be told to mind their own goddamned business about your family's happiness.

I'd hate for any person whether believer or non believer to go through it. It's mindless behaviour which hurts people.

Bullshit. Getting to know a lot of people, and to figure out which of them is best suited to you, is the best way to find a partner who will spend the rest of their lives being happy with you and making you happy.

This is an innate feeling which I can't get out.

We can change the way we feel about everything. It's why we have a reasoning brain. No opinion is so ingrained that it cannot be changed. We just need to have the self-confidence to be able to live with being wrong.

There are many many many wonderful things in the world.

Indeed.

However atheists seem to forget that and only think about the bad things.

I don't know about other atheists, but this atheist, thinks only of good things. I've been through hard times and had to deal with some horrific things in my family, but I've never turned my back on someone who made a mistake. In fact I would defend them against anyone who dared to judge them.

According to scripture God created our reality to have both.

No, according to the mind-meanderings of ignorant people who invented a god...

I worship God now because I believe God to be the truth and I see the good things out weigh the bad.

Whoop de doo. I'm happy for you. I can't waste my time worshipping nonsense.

Evidence shows that the truth always prevails and good always overcomes evil.

What evidence. All the evidence I've ever seen for religion, and religious societies is that they are the very personification of what i would define as "evil."

No matter how bad a person has felt regardless of the disaster they have been through, it can be overcome.

That is very true. Including the things the people you love do that make you feel that you've failed them, all bad things can be overcome, not because of a god, but because we have the capacity to forget the bad and remember only the good.
Last edited by ADParker on Mar 30, 2014 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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A mind without instruction can no more bear fruit than can a field, however fertile, without cultivation. - Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 BCE - 43 BCE)
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Re: Questioning Darwin

#1663  Postby Sendraks » Mar 30, 2014 3:25 pm

15minute queue time for battlenet today.
What kind of god would allow such a travesty to occur?
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Re: Questioning Darwin

#1664  Postby bert » Mar 30, 2014 3:44 pm

Agrippina wrote:
questioner121 wrote:

Fearing God and obeying God means working righteous and being a decent human being.

How can you fear someone, and claim that they are "righteous" and that your fear of them makes you a "decent human being?"


I once read a book (forgot the title) about a white south-african boy who was bullied by another kid. A black guy teaches the boy boxing and he becomes very good at it (in the end beating the bully when he meets him later in life, in a mine). You remind me of the boy: That was one hell of a knock out post. :clap:

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Re: Questioning Darwin

#1665  Postby Agrippina » Mar 30, 2014 4:08 pm

Thank you Bert. The book you're thinking about is The Power of One, by Bryce Courtenay. Excellent one. The boy went by the name of "Pisskop" (Pee-head) due to some event when he was only a little guy and he wet himself when he was being bullied.
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