Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

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Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#1  Postby Rumraket » Oct 24, 2014 10:55 am

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2004/07/the-everimminen.html

Touchstone: Where is the ID movement going in the next ten years? What new issues will it be exploring, and what new challenges will it be offering Darwinism?

Dembski: In the next five years, molecular Darwinism – the idea that Darwinian processes can produce complex molecular structures at the subcellular level – will be dead. When that happens, evolutionary biology will experience a crisis of confidence because evolutionary biology hinges on the evolution of the right molecules. I therefore foresee a Taliban-style collapse of Darwinism in the next ten years. Intelligent design will of course profit greatly from this. For ID to win the day, however, will require talented new researchers able to move this research program forward, showing how intelligent design provides better insights into biological systems than the dying Darwinian paradigm.
(Anonymous (Touchstone Magazine), (2004). “The Measure of Design: A conversation about the past, present & future of Darwinism and Design.” Touchstone, 17(6), pp. 60-65.)


The great Irony is that the both the Taliban and evolution is doing just fine.
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#2  Postby Animavore » Oct 24, 2014 10:58 am

:lmao:

So, what's ID even up to these days?
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#3  Postby Rumraket » Oct 24, 2014 10:59 am

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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#4  Postby Animavore » Oct 24, 2014 11:00 am

Yeah, I was thinking I hadn't heard much about them since Dover really.
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#5  Postby Shrunk » Oct 24, 2014 1:33 pm

Yeah. YEC's like Ken Ham are kicking them to the curb. If you'll forgive the tangent, it's kind of like how leftist politicians here in Canada keep losing by trying to adopt more centre-right policies and rhetoric in order to convince people they are "moderates." The IDiots think they can attract followers by gussying their creationism up in science-y looking garb. But that just drives away their core constituency, who prefer their creationism full-on stupid. Polysyllabic nonsense like "irreducible complexity" just causes the typical creationist a headache. Why bother with all that, when all you need is right there in the Bible?

For similar reasons, the "theistic evolutionists" are being ignored even more than the IDiots.
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#6  Postby Shrunk » Oct 24, 2014 1:38 pm

Rumraket wrote:http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2004/07/the-everimminen.html

Touchstone: Where is the ID movement going in the next ten years? What new issues will it be exploring, and what new challenges will it be offering Darwinism?

Dembski: In the next five years, molecular Darwinism – the idea that Darwinian processes can produce complex molecular structures at the subcellular level – will be dead. When that happens, evolutionary biology will experience a crisis of confidence because evolutionary biology hinges on the evolution of the right molecules. I therefore foresee a Taliban-style collapse of Darwinism in the next ten years. Intelligent design will of course profit greatly from this. For ID to win the day, however, will require talented new researchers able to move this research program forward, showing how intelligent design provides better insights into biological systems than the dying Darwinian paradigm.
(Anonymous (Touchstone Magazine), (2004). “The Measure of Design: A conversation about the past, present & future of Darwinism and Design.” Touchstone, 17(6), pp. 60-65.)


The great Irony is that the both the Taliban and evolution is doing just fine.


Of course, we both frequent Larry Moran's Sandwalk blog, and know that he would agree that "Darwinism" is dead. But not for the reasons Dembski thinks.
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#7  Postby Spearthrower » Oct 24, 2014 1:55 pm

Shrunk wrote:
Of course, we both frequent Larry Moran's Sandwalk blog, and know that he would agree that "Darwinism" is dead. But not for the reasons Dembski thinks.


Colour me intrigued.

Does it perchance have anything to do with the fact that not all evolution occurs as a result of natural selection but by drift? That's the only way I can conceive of in which the tag Darwinism is dead could be considered a useful observation.
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#8  Postby Evolving » Oct 24, 2014 2:57 pm

Maybe on the basis that it is genes that are selected for, not organisms.
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#9  Postby Rumraket » Oct 24, 2014 3:05 pm

Spearthrower wrote:
Shrunk wrote:
Of course, we both frequent Larry Moran's Sandwalk blog, and know that he would agree that "Darwinism" is dead. But not for the reasons Dembski thinks.


Colour me intrigued.

Does it perchance have anything to do with the fact that not all evolution occurs as a result of natural selection but by drift? That's the only way I can conceive of in which the tag Darwinism is dead could be considered a useful observation.

Yep, that's pretty much it. Larry has done a lot of work exposing how criticism of "darwinism" in the litterature is not actually a refutation of modern evolutionary theory as the IDiots constantly insinuate.
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#10  Postby Shrunk » Oct 24, 2014 3:41 pm

Rumraket wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:
Shrunk wrote:
Of course, we both frequent Larry Moran's Sandwalk blog, and know that he would agree that "Darwinism" is dead. But not for the reasons Dembski thinks.


Colour me intrigued.

Does it perchance have anything to do with the fact that not all evolution occurs as a result of natural selection but by drift? That's the only way I can conceive of in which the tag Darwinism is dead could be considered a useful observation.

Yep, that's pretty much it. Larry has done a lot of work exposing how criticism of "darwinism" in the litterature is not actually a refutation of modern evolutionary theory as the IDiots constantly insinuate.


Yes, it's a rich vein for them to quote mine.
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#11  Postby Weaver » Oct 24, 2014 3:57 pm

Rumraket wrote:http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2004/07/the-everimminen.html

Touchstone: Where is the ID movement going in the next ten years? What new issues will it be exploring, and what new challenges will it be offering Darwinism?

Dembski: In the next five years, molecular Darwinism – the idea that Darwinian processes can produce complex molecular structures at the subcellular level – will be dead. When that happens, evolutionary biology will experience a crisis of confidence because evolutionary biology hinges on the evolution of the right molecules. I therefore foresee a Taliban-style collapse of Darwinism in the next ten years. Intelligent design will of course profit greatly from this. For ID to win the day, however, will require talented new researchers able to move this research program forward, showing how intelligent design provides better insights into biological systems than the dying Darwinian paradigm.
(Anonymous (Touchstone Magazine), (2004). “The Measure of Design: A conversation about the past, present & future of Darwinism and Design.” Touchstone, 17(6), pp. 60-65.)


Once again showing that ID doesn't actually have any science, but is just an attempt to refute science.
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#12  Postby Spearthrower » Oct 24, 2014 4:26 pm

Shrunk wrote:
Rumraket wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:
Shrunk wrote:
Of course, we both frequent Larry Moran's Sandwalk blog, and know that he would agree that "Darwinism" is dead. But not for the reasons Dembski thinks.


Colour me intrigued.

Does it perchance have anything to do with the fact that not all evolution occurs as a result of natural selection but by drift? That's the only way I can conceive of in which the tag Darwinism is dead could be considered a useful observation.

Yep, that's pretty much it. Larry has done a lot of work exposing how criticism of "darwinism" in the litterature is not actually a refutation of modern evolutionary theory as the IDiots constantly insinuate.


Yes, it's a rich vein for them to quote mine.


Well then, colour me bored! :grin:
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#13  Postby Varangian » Oct 24, 2014 4:33 pm

Well, if anything, it is a useful illustration about the survival of the fittest ideas...
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#14  Postby ScholasticSpastic » Nov 13, 2014 4:15 am

Rumraket wrote:http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2004/07/the-everimminen.html


Dembski: For ID to win the day, however, will require talented new researchers able to move this research program forward, showing how intelligent design provides better insights into biological systems than the [...] Darwinian paradigm.

If I trim it thus, I can begin to agree with it. Were there talented new researchers able to show how intelligent design provides better insights into biological systems than the theory of evolution, I would even stop joking about IDiots.
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#15  Postby Calilasseia » Nov 13, 2014 7:57 pm

Still waiting to see how Carabid beetles with otherwise fully functional wings, rendered useless by fused elytra, make any sense in terms of "design" ...
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#16  Postby Rumraket » Nov 13, 2014 8:19 pm

Calilasseia wrote:Still waiting to see how Carabid beetles with otherwise fully functional wings, rendered useless by fused elytra, make any sense in terms of "design" ...

"you can't know the will of the designer".
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#17  Postby Calilasseia » Nov 13, 2014 9:29 pm

Rumraket wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:Still waiting to see how Carabid beetles with otherwise fully functional wings, rendered useless by fused elytra, make any sense in terms of "design" ...


"you can't know the will of the designer".


Except when it's apologetically convenient of course ...
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#18  Postby Arcanyn » Nov 14, 2014 1:48 am

Calilasseia wrote:Still waiting to see how Carabid beetles with otherwise fully functional wings, rendered useless by fused elytra, make any sense in terms of "design" ...


One of the designers is a prankster who likes to go around sabotaging the work of the other designers for a laugh.
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#19  Postby lucek » Nov 16, 2014 3:31 pm

Shrunk wrote:Yeah. YEC's like Ken Ham are kicking them to the curb. If you'll forgive the tangent, it's kind of like how leftist politicians here in Canada keep losing by trying to adopt more centre-right policies and rhetoric in order to convince people they are "moderates." The IDiots think they can attract followers by gussying their creationism up in science-y looking garb. But that just drives away their core constituency, who prefer their creationism full-on stupid. Polysyllabic nonsense like "irreducible complexity" just causes the typical creationist a headache. Why bother with all that, when all you need is right there in the Bible?

For similar reasons, the "theistic evolutionists" are being ignored even more than the IDiots.

I think that's not entirely true. Theistic evolution has become a pretty much default position for non creation religious. The pope recent statements being just the most visible in recent time. I don't mind it however. If you believe in a god and accept that nature actually functions as we see it then theistic evolution is at least self consistent (or not ruled out).
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Re: Tenth anniversary of "Taliban-style" collapse of "Darwinism"

#20  Postby bert » Nov 16, 2014 6:11 pm

Rumraket wrote:"you can't know the will of the designer".


I'm quite certain that he doesn't want his followers to use proper arguments and logic. See! QED! He exists.

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