The 7 deadly myths about creationism

Misconceptions about what creationist believe

Incl. intelligent design, belief in divine creation

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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#41  Postby Wortfish » Mar 29, 2018 1:22 pm

aban57 wrote:
Also, believing that 7 billions can come from a single couple is perfectly ludicrous.


https://www.nature.com/news/genetic-ada ... me-1.13478
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#42  Postby aban57 » Mar 29, 2018 1:22 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Rumraket wrote:
Soil is in large part decomposing plant and animal matter, together with all sorts of microorganisms. Where did that come from? The creationist explanation doesn't make sense.

Presumably, the first land plants in the evolutionary narrative, around 700 million years ago, must have grown on soil that was not made of decomposed plant and animal matter, maybe bacteria and protists (these are not mentioned in the Genesis account).


More apologetics then. More and more self-convincing bullshit thrown around, hoping it will stick on something.
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#43  Postby newolder » Mar 29, 2018 1:25 pm

Wortfish wrote:
newolder wrote:
Wortfish wrote:...
The sugars that power them, and the oxygen they breathe, comes from the air.
...

Which airborne sugars are we talking about here - candy floss clouds, sucrose snow, glucose graupel, fructose fog, lactose lockets or what? :crazy:


Carbon dioxide, actually. Sugars are carbohydrates.

Green plants absorb light energy using chlorophyll in their leaves. They use it to react carbon dioxide with water to make a sugar called glucose.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesi ... nts1.shtml

Your attempt at correction is noted. Sugar is produced and consumed within the plant and does not "comes from the air". :thumbup:
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#44  Postby aban57 » Mar 29, 2018 1:29 pm

Wortfish wrote:
aban57 wrote:
Also, believing that 7 billions can come from a single couple is perfectly ludicrous.


https://www.nature.com/news/genetic-ada ... me-1.13478


Ah, the creationist's favorite "population bottleneck" argument. I was hoping you would come up with that shit. Saying that
All men living now, then, would have a Y chromosome descended from that one man — identified as Y-chromosome Adam
doesn't mean he was the only man at the time. In fact, the article you quote says so twice in that very paragraph :

When the overall population size does not change (as is likely to have happened for long periods of human history), men have, on average, just one son. In this case, evolutionary theory predicts that for any given man there is a high probability that his paternal line will eventually come to an end. All of his male descendants will then have inherited Y chromosomes from other men. In fact, it is highly probable that at some point in the past, all men except one possessed Y chromosomes that by now are extinct. All men living now, then, would have a Y chromosome descended from that one man — identified as Y-chromosome Adam. (The biblical reference is a bit of a misnomer because this Adam was by no means the only man alive at his time.)


Next time you want to refute someone else's argument, make sure you don't refute your own instead.
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#45  Postby Wortfish » Mar 29, 2018 1:53 pm

newolder wrote:
Your attempt at correction is noted. Sugar is produced and consumed within the plant and does not "comes from the air". :thumbup:


No correction. Plants get the carbon atoms they need to make sugar from the carbon dioxide in the air. You just failed to understand what I was referring to.
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#46  Postby Wortfish » Mar 29, 2018 1:54 pm

aban57 wrote: (The biblical reference is a bit of a misnomer because this Adam was by no means the only man alive at his time.)


Next time you want to refute someone else's argument, make sure you don't refute your own instead.


According to Genesis, Adam's son, Seth, was also alive at his time. :grin:
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#47  Postby Animavore » Mar 29, 2018 1:55 pm

Wortfish wrote:
aban57 wrote:
Also, believing that 7 billions can come from a single couple is perfectly ludicrous.


https://www.nature.com/news/genetic-ada ... me-1.13478


Um... You know these genes were named after the mythological couple not the other way around, right? :scratch:
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#48  Postby aban57 » Mar 29, 2018 1:57 pm

Wortfish wrote:
aban57 wrote: (The biblical reference is a bit of a misnomer because this Adam was by no means the only man alive at his time.)


Next time you want to refute someone else's argument, make sure you don't refute your own instead.


According to Genesis, Adam's son, Seth, was also alive at his time. :grin:


Yes, and Genesis only accounts for 2 sons, no daughters. How did the only surviving son married and got children ? From thin air too ? Magic ?


Hint : I'm going to answer "More apologetics then" to your answer to that post.
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#49  Postby Rumraket » Mar 29, 2018 1:58 pm

Wortfish wrote:
aban57 wrote:
Also, believing that 7 billions can come from a single couple is perfectly ludicrous.


https://www.nature.com/news/genetic-ada ... me-1.13478

Nothing in that article supports the mythological position.
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#50  Postby newolder » Mar 29, 2018 2:05 pm

Wortfish wrote:
newolder wrote:
Your attempt at correction is noted. Sugar is produced and consumed within the plant and does not "comes from the air". :thumbup:


No correction. Plants get the carbon atoms they need to make sugar from the carbon dioxide in the air. You just failed to understand what I was referring to.

When you wrote:
The sugars that power them, and the oxygen they breathe, comes from the air.

You refer to sugars in the air. Now you refer to carbon atoms and carbon dioxide in the air - neither of which are sugars. It seems the confusion is not with me.
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#51  Postby The_Metatron » Mar 29, 2018 3:56 pm

Rumraket wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
aban57 wrote:
Also, believing that 7 billions can come from a single couple is perfectly ludicrous.


https://www.nature.com/news/genetic-ada ... me-1.13478

Nothing in that article supports the mythological position.

Weren’t there some really small population bottlenecks for ground apes along the way?
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#52  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 29, 2018 4:07 pm

Wortfish wrote:
newolder wrote:
Wortfish wrote:...
The sugars that power them, and the oxygen they breathe, comes from the air.
...

Which airborne sugars are we talking about here - candy floss clouds, sucrose snow, glucose graupel, fructose fog, lactose lockets or what? :crazy:


Carbon dioxide, actually. Sugars are carbohydrates: http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesi ... nts1.shtml

Green plants absorb light energy using chlorophyll in their leaves. They use it to react carbon dioxide with water to make a sugar called glucose.

You seem to blissfully or intentionally unaware that your quote refutes your own claim. Sugar doesn't come from the soil nor from the plant, it comes from the absorption of sun and water, neither of which originate from the soil or the plant.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#53  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 29, 2018 4:13 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
False, the materials to make the plants come from seeds or other reproductive matter from previous plants.
Plants don't spontaneously form out of the dirt.


The genetic instructions are found in the seeds,

This is typical creationist usage of metaphorical language to imply agency.
And no, it does not just contain instructions, it contains the basic matter of the plant. Anything else has to be absorbed by the seed from the soil.
The seed was neither created by nor magically appeared in the soil Wortfish.

Wortfish wrote: but the actual raw materials come from the soil, water and air.

Stop making shit up about subjects you clearly know fuck all about.

Wortfish wrote:
Therefore creationism is nowhere near the same principle.


I am arguing that God didn't create Eve from scratch.

Not only is this in contradiction with what the biblical texts state, it is wholly irrelevant. Evolution isn't an agent that creates things. It's the name for a collection of processes and interactions wich results in gene variation and speciation.

Wortfish wrote: He created Adam from dust,

And again, since humans evolved from older primates and are not golems this is just ludicrous nonsense.

Wortfish wrote:then Eve from one of his ribs. He gave them both reproductive parts that allow the human race to profilerate and continue without having to create each and every one of us from scratch again and again: "Go forth and multiply!" That sounds a lot like evolution!

Only if you fail to understand what evolution is or are employing a dishonest humpty-dumpty definition.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#54  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 29, 2018 4:15 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Rumraket wrote:
Soil is in large part decomposing plant and animal matter, together with all sorts of microorganisms. Where did that come from? The creationist explanation doesn't make sense.

Presumably, the first land plants in the evolutionary narrative,

Drop the insinuations Wortfish. There is no evolutionary narrative. It isn't a mythology like your bible.

Wortfish wrote: around 700 million years ago, must have grown on soil

Plant life originated in the oceans and freshwater lakes Wortfish, not on dry land.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#55  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 29, 2018 4:20 pm

Wortfish wrote:
aban57 wrote:
Also, believing that 7 billions can come from a single couple is perfectly ludicrous.


https://www.nature.com/news/genetic-ada ... me-1.13478

A classic case of popular science leading to misunderstanding.
Last edited by Thomas Eshuis on Mar 29, 2018 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#56  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 29, 2018 4:21 pm

Wortfish wrote:
aban57 wrote: (The biblical reference is a bit of a misnomer because this Adam was by no means the only man alive at his time.)


Next time you want to refute someone else's argument, make sure you don't refute your own instead.


According to Genesis, Adam's son, Seth, was also alive at his time. :grin:

Well, you managed to last 2 pages this time before you made you first evidently trolling post. :roll:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#57  Postby aban57 » Mar 29, 2018 4:36 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
aban57 wrote: (The biblical reference is a bit of a misnomer because this Adam was by no means the only man alive at his time.)


Next time you want to refute someone else's argument, make sure you don't refute your own instead.


According to Genesis, Adam's son, Seth, was also alive at his time. :grin:

Well, you managed to last 2 pages this time before you made you first evidently trolling post. :roll:


I took this comment as a joke made to avoid adressing the point. But yeah, could be trolling :)
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#58  Postby laklak » Mar 29, 2018 6:22 pm

So Adam and Eve should be viewed as allegory. OK. How do you know what bits are allegory and what bits are "God's Revealed Truth"? Is there some special font? Looks to me like the entire fucking thing is allegory, just a bunch of desert goat roasters making up shit about things they didn't understand.

Like JRR Tolkien, I have detested allegory since I was old enough to detect its presence.
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#59  Postby BlackBart » Mar 29, 2018 7:45 pm

Answer in Genesis unequivocally states Adam and Eve were real. I think Wortfish needs to get his ducks in row before he pontificates on what people believe.
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Re: The 7 deadly myths about creationism

#60  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 29, 2018 8:04 pm

aban57 wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
aban57 wrote: (The biblical reference is a bit of a misnomer because this Adam was by no means the only man alive at his time.)


Next time you want to refute someone else's argument, make sure you don't refute your own instead.


According to Genesis, Adam's son, Seth, was also alive at his time. :grin:

Well, you managed to last 2 pages this time before you made you first evidently trolling post. :roll:


I took this comment as a joke made to avoid adressing the point. But yeah, could be trolling :)

That's trolling.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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