The Origin of Life

Five questions worth asking

Incl. intelligent design, belief in divine creation

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Re: The Origin of Life

#2161  Postby Agrippina » Apr 09, 2014 4:42 pm

There was an image on Facebook yesterday, now I can't find it. It said something about people accepting that domestic cats and big wild cats share 95% of their DNA but they can't accept that humans and great apes share an even closer similarity of DNA.
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2162  Postby fluttermoth » Apr 09, 2014 5:10 pm

This one?

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Re: The Origin of Life

#2163  Postby lucek » Apr 09, 2014 5:33 pm

People have always tried to make a hard line between Humans and other things.

There are and were people who claimed we aren't (or aren't entirely) apes, mammals, animals, and even matter. The line they draw doesn't matter just that they say there is one.
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2164  Postby Agrippina » Apr 09, 2014 6:11 pm

Yes, thanks fluttermoth. That's the one. :thumbup:
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2165  Postby Agrippina » Apr 09, 2014 6:15 pm

lucek wrote:People have always tried to make a hard line between Humans and other things.

There are and were people who claimed we aren't (or aren't entirely) apes, mammals, animals, and even matter. The line they draw doesn't matter just that they say there is one.


Indeed. Humans are "special" "made in our image." :roll:
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2166  Postby Alan C » Apr 09, 2014 8:40 pm

Agrippina wrote:
lucek wrote:People have always tried to make a hard line between Humans and other things.

There are and were people who claimed we aren't (or aren't entirely) apes, mammals, animals, and even matter. The line they draw doesn't matter just that they say there is one.


Indeed. Humans are "special" "made in our image." :roll:


It one of those things is a source for bemusement to me. I see it so often brought up by cretinists desperate to feel special [well, they're special, just not in a good way].
I think once I replied with something like; "You eat, sleep, shit and fuck. How are you not a part of the animal kingdom?"
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2167  Postby Agrippina » Apr 10, 2014 6:20 am

Exactly. :thumbup:
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2168  Postby Agrippina » Apr 10, 2014 11:49 am

Here's another FB image. When people talk about believing in god, which one are they talking about:

Image
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2169  Postby kennyc » Apr 10, 2014 12:22 pm

In one sense there was no 'origin of life' -- life is nothing more than an extension of the inherent processes of chemistry and physics of the universe.
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2170  Postby hackenslash » Apr 10, 2014 12:31 pm

Surely it's particles, forces and spacetime..?

Setting aside the fact that particles are emergent...
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2171  Postby kennyc » Apr 10, 2014 12:41 pm

hackenslash wrote:Surely it's particles, forces and spacetime..?

Setting aside the fact that particles are emergent...



Oh.....right.....silly me. :D
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2172  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 15, 2014 5:38 am

questioner121 wrote:
ElDiablo wrote:
questioner121 wrote:Now, for me it's a matter of using science to prove the existence of God.

And how do do you that?


1. Prove the earth is stationary.
2. Prove that life cannot be created by humans hence evolution could not have started from simple cellular life.
3. Prove that climate change is lies. Climate and weather doesn't follow scientific theories, it's ever changing ad unpredictable.
4. Prove there is a spiritual side.
...I'll add others when I think of them.



I love this to bits.

How to use science to prove god's existence.... by disproving a random smattering of unrelated scientifically established facts which you consider as being contradictory to your personal interpretation of scripture.

Creationism in a nut-shell!

However, even were you capable of achieving all 4 of these, it wouldn't offer a shred of evidence in support of any god, let alone your one.

However, by applying your own logic... if anyone can prove the first 3 or disprove the last, then you should abandon your belief in your god.... amirite?

But of course; your belief isn't remotely contingent on these positions. Even if you finally personally accepted the overwhelming evidence for each of the first three - you'd still maintain your belief in the over-being.

All it explains is your refusal to accept the evidence - because there's a lot more resting on your evidence denial than considerations about intellectual honesty.
Last edited by Spearthrower on Apr 15, 2014 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2173  Postby Darwinsbulldog » Apr 15, 2014 6:29 am

Jesus fucking Christ creationists are so damn retarded and lazy. Come on you idiots, at least find papers like this:-

Orthwein, A., A. Fradet-Turcotte, et al. (2014). "Mitosis Inhibits DNA Double-Strand Break Repair to Guard Against Telomere Fusions." Science 344(6180): 189-193.
Mitotic cells inactivate DNA double-strand break (DSB) repair, but the rationale behind this suppression remains unknown. Here, we unravel how mitosis blocks DSB repair and determine the consequences of repair reactivation. Mitotic kinases phosphorylate the E3 ubiquitin ligase RNF8 and the nonhomologous end joining factor 53BP1 to inhibit their recruitment to DSB-flanking chromatin. Restoration of RNF8 and 53BP1 accumulation at mitotic DSB sites activates DNA repair but is, paradoxically, deleterious. Aberrantly controlled mitotic DSB repair leads to Aurora B kinase–dependent sister telomere fusions that produce dicentric chromosomes and aneuploidy, especially in the presence of exogenous genotoxic stress. We conclude that the capacity of mitotic DSB repair to destabilize the genome explains the necessity for its suppression during mitosis, principally due to the fusogenic potential of mitotic telomeres.


http://www.sciencemag.org/content/344/6180/189.abstract
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2174  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 15, 2014 6:41 am

Darwinsbulldog wrote:Jesus fucking Christ creationists are so damn retarded and lazy. Come on you idiots, at least find papers like this:-

Orthwein, A., A. Fradet-Turcotte, et al. (2014). "Mitosis Inhibits DNA Double-Strand Break Repair to Guard Against Telomere Fusions." Science 344(6180): 189-193.
Mitotic cells inactivate DNA double-strand break (DSB) repair, but the rationale behind this suppression remains unknown. Here, we unravel how mitosis blocks DSB repair and determine the consequences of repair reactivation. Mitotic kinases phosphorylate the E3 ubiquitin ligase RNF8 and the nonhomologous end joining factor 53BP1 to inhibit their recruitment to DSB-flanking chromatin. Restoration of RNF8 and 53BP1 accumulation at mitotic DSB sites activates DNA repair but is, paradoxically, deleterious. Aberrantly controlled mitotic DSB repair leads to Aurora B kinase–dependent sister telomere fusions that produce dicentric chromosomes and aneuploidy, especially in the presence of exogenous genotoxic stress. We conclude that the capacity of mitotic DSB repair to destabilize the genome explains the necessity for its suppression during mitosis, principally due to the fusogenic potential of mitotic telomeres.


http://www.sciencemag.org/content/344/6180/189.abstract



I can imagine Joe jerking off.... it's not a pleasant imagination.
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2175  Postby Darwinsbulldog » Apr 15, 2014 7:57 am

Spearthrower wrote:
Darwinsbulldog wrote:Jesus fucking Christ creationists are so damn retarded and lazy. Come on you idiots, at least find papers like this:-

Orthwein, A., A. Fradet-Turcotte, et al. (2014). "Mitosis Inhibits DNA Double-Strand Break Repair to Guard Against Telomere Fusions." Science 344(6180): 189-193.
Mitotic cells inactivate DNA double-strand break (DSB) repair, but the rationale behind this suppression remains unknown. Here, we unravel how mitosis blocks DSB repair and determine the consequences of repair reactivation. Mitotic kinases phosphorylate the E3 ubiquitin ligase RNF8 and the nonhomologous end joining factor 53BP1 to inhibit their recruitment to DSB-flanking chromatin. Restoration of RNF8 and 53BP1 accumulation at mitotic DSB sites activates DNA repair but is, paradoxically, deleterious. Aberrantly controlled mitotic DSB repair leads to Aurora B kinase–dependent sister telomere fusions that produce dicentric chromosomes and aneuploidy, especially in the presence of exogenous genotoxic stress. We conclude that the capacity of mitotic DSB repair to destabilize the genome explains the necessity for its suppression during mitosis, principally due to the fusogenic potential of mitotic telomeres.


http://www.sciencemag.org/content/344/6180/189.abstract



I can imagine Joe jerking off.... it's not a pleasant imagination.

Won't do him no good anyways! :grin:
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2176  Postby bert » Apr 15, 2014 6:33 pm

questioner121 wrote:
ElDiablo wrote:
questioner121 wrote:Now, for me it's a matter of using science to prove the existence of God.

And how do do you that?


1. Prove the earth is stationary.


Of course, the moon looked like it was gone last night, but that was not really really true. It was just in the earth's shadow (the phenomenon was visible if you were in the US). So, it was there alright. Now, that lump op cheese has mass (or weight, so you don't confuse it with Sunday's brainwashings). The earth has mass too. The moon revolves around the earth, but because the moon has mass, it is more exact to say they revolve around a point defined by their common center of gravity. So, the earth revolves around that point and hence isn't stationary. It is amazing what high school physics and common sense can achieve, don't you think?

3. Prove that climate change is lies. Climate and weather doesn't follow scientific theories, it's ever changing ad unpredictable.


True, climate and weather never finished high school and don't know shit about scientific theories and hence don't follow them. Conversely, however, scientific theories give a pretty good understanding of how climate and weather behave, and there's even a pretty good theory regarding their unpredictability.

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Re: The Origin of Life

#2177  Postby Darwinsbulldog » Apr 16, 2014 2:24 am

Both climate and weather are predictable [within limits].

The two basic problems are:-

1. Using a sufficient number of data points. This is complicated by:
a). Cost
b). The measurement process itself.
2. Computing power.

Climate predictions, being over longer time scales, are more reliable. But weather can be predicted better if it worth the cost. Airport weather stations can have many sensors and powerful computers to predict microclimates for flight safety reasons. Some airports have serious wind shear problems, and in these locations [if the government concerned can afford it] have very good meterological facilities, including dedicated weather radars etc.
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2178  Postby Rumraket » Apr 20, 2014 11:26 pm

fluttermoth wrote:This one?

Image

There's an even better case to be made concerning the genetic differences between dogs and wolves, which is as low as 85% in some cases. Yet no creationist has any issue accepting common descent between a Irish Wolfhound, Chihuahua and a Wolf, despite their significantly larger relative genetic and morphological distance.

Irish Wolfhound next to a Chihuahua/Poodle cross:
Image

Chihuahua next to Wolf skull:
Image

Sigificant genetic and morphological change = simple "within-kind" microevolution.

But...
ImageImageBut when it comes to Homo Sapiens and the chimpanzee which are much more similar, suddenly the differences constitute an insurmoutable macroevolutionary gap that defies comprehension.And requires direct personal intervention by an omnipotent deity to facilitate.

:crazy:
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2179  Postby Calilasseia » Jul 21, 2014 2:06 am

Something interesting turned up in my letterbox recently. The JWs had been around, and because I happened to be out on an entomological field trip when they knocked on the door (yes, it was an early start - around 8am), they decided to leave a little present in my letterbox.

A two hundred and fifty five page hardback book, no less. The title is hilarious:

Life - How Did It Get Here? By Evolution Or Creation?

It's spent a little time gathering dust since it arrived, but I think it might be fun to take a peek through this screed, and see what canards are being peddled inside it.
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Re: The Origin of Life

#2180  Postby ADParker » Jul 21, 2014 2:25 am

This is apparently an in depth critique of that book: The WTS View of Creation and Evolution
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