Shrunk wrote:
You're a very bad student. Were you passing notes to your friends during the lesson?

If common ancestry wasn't a fact, then we wouldn't have been able to know in advance that humans had a fused chromosome.

If humans did not come from ancestors, but instead were each individually poofed into existence by Allah, would you know that a human with 44 chromosomes had a fusion?

questioner121 wrote:If the evolutionary model predicted the number of chromosomes then it should be able to predict the number of chromosomes in monkeys and other living organisms. Right?

questioner121 wrote:

Shrunk wrote:
You're a very bad student. Were you passing notes to your friends during the lesson?

If common ancestry wasn't a fact, then we wouldn't have been able to know in advance that humans had a fused chromosome.

If humans did not come from ancestors, but instead were each individually poofed into existence by Allah, would you know that a human with 44 chromosomes had a fusion?

You don't seem to be answering my question. How many chromosomes should the common ancestors have? How many chromosomes should monkeys have and our common ancestor with them?

questioner121 wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

questioner121 wrote:OK, so the consensus on here is that the redundant centromere in chromosome 2 of the human genome is an allele.

Calilasseia wrote:
Definition of allele: one of a number of alternative forms of the same genetic locus. Usually, this term is applied to genes, and in elementary lessons on the subject, the classic examples chosen tend to be single-factor genes exhibiting Mendelian inheritance patterns, but of course, other, more complex examples exist. Consequently, any genetic locus for which the existence of alternative forms can be demonstrated to exist, constitutes an allele in a genome. The redundant centromere in human chromosome 2 is precisely such a locus, one shared by all humans. That same locus in other primates, happens not to be a redundant centromere, but an active centromere. Whilst Hackenslash's language was less than ideally rigorous, in these terms, he's largely right. Namely, there exists a well-defined locus on human chromosome 2, that is found to reside on a separate chromosome in other primates, and takes an alternative form, by virtue of being an active centromere.

I don't believe this is correct because first of all the redundant centromere in the chimps chromosome cannot be classed as being in the same locus. The same locus in terms alleles means it has to be in the same chromosome of the living organism. You can't compare it to a locus in the chromosome of another living organism.

This is very wrong. It means that if you are homozygous for a particular allele, it can't be called an allele.

You're not understanding allele incorrectly. An allele is just another form of a gene. A gene being a sequence of DNA code usually for a specific function.

For example, lets say the following is and encoding for a gene: AAABBB. This is located at a specific point in a chromosome. If in the same location of the chromomsome you found the following combinations in other living organisms of the same species then it's referred as alleles.

AABBAA
AADDEE
BBAACC

The above are all genes but they're called alleles because they occur at the same locus AND have variations in different living organisms of the same species.

If the same encoding was found in different loci in the chromosome then they are not alleles. It has to be in the same locus.

Shrunk wrote:

questioner121 wrote:

Shrunk wrote:
You're a very bad student. Were you passing notes to your friends during the lesson?

If common ancestry wasn't a fact, then we wouldn't have been able to know in advance that humans had a fused chromosome.

If humans did not come from ancestors, but instead were each individually poofed into existence by Allah, would you know that a human with 44 chromosomes had a fusion?

You don't seem to be answering my question. How many chromosomes should the common ancestors have? How many chromosomes should monkeys have and our common ancestor with them?

Any number. You can't predict how many fusions, fissions or other major genomic events might occur within lineages.

When are we going to see the references to the predictions from creationist "researchers"?

Shrunk wrote:
You don't seem to understand what an "organism" is.

questioner121 wrote:I don't believe this is correct because first of all the redundant centromere in the chimps chromosome cannot be classed as being in the same locus. The same locus in terms alleles means it has to be in the same chromosome of the living organism. You can't compare it to a locus in the chromosome of another living organism.

questioner121 wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

questioner121 wrote:

Shrunk wrote:
You're a very bad student. Were you passing notes to your friends during the lesson?

If common ancestry wasn't a fact, then we wouldn't have been able to know in advance that humans had a fused chromosome.

If humans did not come from ancestors, but instead were each individually poofed into existence by Allah, would you know that a human with 44 chromosomes had a fusion?

You don't seem to be answering my question. How many chromosomes should the common ancestors have? How many chromosomes should monkeys have and our common ancestor with them?

Any number. You can't predict how many fusions, fissions or other major genomic events might occur within lineages.

When are we going to see the references to the predictions from creationist "researchers"?

Shouldn't the common ancestor of humans and apes have 24 pairs of chromosomes if humans do share a common ancestor with them? How can it be any number? Please do help me on this.

questioner121 wrote:

Shrunk wrote:
You don't seem to understand what an "organism" is.

How? Please do explain.

Greyman wrote:

questioner121 wrote:I don't believe this is correct because first of all the redundant centromere in the chimps chromosome cannot be classed as being in the same locus. The same locus in terms alleles means it has to be in the same chromosome of the living organism. You can't compare it to a locus in the chromosome of another living organism.

Surely you can.

You have two photographs. In one photograph there are two short ladders, in another photograph there is one long ladder. You think the long ladder is the same short ladders welded together. But how can you possibly compare them?

Well, you use relative positions, don't you? Look to see if the rungs have the same markings in the same order. Check to see if the sequences on ends of the long ladder align with ends of the short ladders. Also check to see sequences near the center of the long ladder align with those near the other ends of the short ladders. Look for signs of a weld and stuff.

Wouldn't that work?

Shrunk wrote:

questioner121 wrote:
Shouldn't the common ancestor of humans and apes have 24 pairs of chromosomes if humans do share a common ancestor with them? How can it be any number? Please do help me on this.

That's not what you asked.

When are we going to see the references to the predictions from creationist "researchers"?

questioner121 wrote:

Shrunk wrote:
Shouldn't the common ancestor of humans and apes have 24 pairs of chromosomes if humans do share a common ancestor with them? How can it be any number? Please do help me on this.

That's not what you asked.

When are we going to see the references to the predictions from creationist "researchers"?

Whatever. Please do answer anyway.

I have no references to predictions made by creationists, there may well be some. To be honest I have read very little on creationism so my apologies.

questioner121 wrote:Looks like everyone is taking a break or reading up on common ancestry properly.

theropod wrote:Are you not a creationist, questioner121?

RS

Shrunk wrote:

questioner121 wrote:Looks like everyone is taking a break or reading up on common ancestry properly.

The group isn't here to jump to your every beck and call. You've disappeared for periods, too.

questioner121 wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

questioner121 wrote:

Shrunk wrote:
You're a very bad student. Were you passing notes to your friends during the lesson?

If common ancestry wasn't a fact, then we wouldn't have been able to know in advance that humans had a fused chromosome.

If humans did not come from ancestors, but instead were each individually poofed into existence by Allah, would you know that a human with 44 chromosomes had a fusion?

You don't seem to be answering my question. How many chromosomes should the common ancestors have? How many chromosomes should monkeys have and our common ancestor with them?

Any number. You can't predict how many fusions, fissions or other major genomic events might occur within lineages.

When are we going to see the references to the predictions from creationist "researchers"?

Shouldn't the common ancestor of humans and apes have 24 pairs of chromosomes if humans do share a common ancestor with them? How can it be any number? Please do help me on this.

Shrunk wrote:
Yes. It would most likely have had 24 chromosome pairs.