Who Designed the Universe?

Incl. intelligent design, belief in divine creation

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Who Designed the Universe?

#1  Postby ray » Feb 27, 2010 8:01 pm

-

Who Designed the Universe?

The Universe is yet to be discovered because most of it consists of mysterious Dark Matter.

In fact, the complete Universe may never be discovered. So, lets not cross our fingers.

However, even the observable Universe appears to be very well designed.

But who or what designed these incredible laws that regulate this Universe.

If the fine tuning of the laws of that govern the Universe is not
a good evidence of deliberate design, then I dont know what else would be considered as
evidence of a intelligent designer.

Laws of nature are tuned to a very high degree.

Smallest alteration to this delicate balance of laws of Physics would end this Universe.

One can say this fine tuning was pure chance, or,
one can say that the existence of some unknown Super Designer is probable.

Where do you like to stand?


.
Last edited by ray on Feb 27, 2010 8:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#2  Postby Steve » Feb 27, 2010 8:06 pm

Or - it was simply inevitable, things being what they are...
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#3  Postby ray » Feb 27, 2010 8:07 pm

Yes, you mean it was just pure chance, and that things just fell into the right place after the Big Bang?

Sure, we can't rule that out.
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#4  Postby Steve » Feb 27, 2010 8:11 pm

No - not chance. Inevitable. Things are only one way, and this is it.
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#5  Postby campermon » Feb 27, 2010 8:12 pm

ray wrote:-

However, even the observable Universe appears to be very well designed.

.


Designed for what?

It's certainly not 'designed' for life.

;)
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#6  Postby 95Theses » Feb 27, 2010 8:14 pm

If it was designed for Humans, then the designer was pretty useless at his job.

One tiny little planet, in an out of the way solar system at the edges of a mediocre galaxy is all we have available to us?

He's shit at his job.
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#7  Postby cursuswalker » Feb 27, 2010 8:15 pm

This Universe could exist within an eternal Cosmos, in which there exist all sorts of Universes with all sorts of physical laws. We, by definition, are in one where conscious life is possible. In the same way that there are many planets in this Universe and this is one where conscious life is possible.

That is a more parsimonious explanation than all of it having been made by a fully formed consciousness with no biological brain.

Another point: Who designed the puddle in my back garden?
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#8  Postby 95Theses » Feb 27, 2010 8:16 pm

And just to add

Salam Ray !

You are very welcome here, adn i hope you enjoy your time very much. I look forward to hearing many more of your insightful reasons for why Allah exists, I hope you have some new ones for me to learn about!


Please don't break this one too soon everyone, it's the only one we have at the moment and the butterfly is hungry
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#9  Postby cursuswalker » Feb 27, 2010 8:22 pm

95Theses wrote:Please don't break this one too soon everyone, it's the only one we have at the moment and the butterfly is hungry


TOL (titter out loud)
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#10  Postby Darkchilde » Feb 27, 2010 8:23 pm

ray wrote:-

Who Designed the Universe?


Noone designed the Universe. The Universe just is.

ray wrote:
The Universe is yet to be discovered because most of it consists of mysterious Dark Matter.


Mysterious only because we do not know its composition. Otherwise, we do know that dark matter exists, and that it makes up most of the Universe.

ray wrote:
In fact, the complete Universe may never be discovered. So, lets not cross our fingers.


You never know. It might, it might not.

ray wrote:
However, even the observable Universe appears to be very well designed.


Not, not true. There is no 'design'. In fact, Martin Rees in his book Just Six Numbers, postulates that if some of the constants were different, we would have a viable Universe, again with the possibility of life.

ray wrote:
But who or what designed these incredible laws that regulate this Universe.


There is no design. There is no evidence of design.

ray wrote:
If the fine tuning of the laws of that govern the Universe is not
a good evidence of deliberate design, then I dont know what else would be considered as
evidence of a intelligent designer.


Oh, another one with the fine tuning. There is no fine tuning. In fact the Universe is a very chaotic and very violent place. Supernovas, gamma ray bursts, black holes, violent galaxy mergers. Our own galaxy the Milky Way, has grown from 'gobbling' up smaller galaxies; in fact there is evidence that one such merger is still taking place, but is at the last stages. The galaxy of Andromeda and the Milky Way are heading for each other; in a few million years, they will be merging. That is not fine tuning.

ray wrote:
Laws of nature are tuned to a very high degree.


Wrong, as said above.
ray wrote:
Smallest alteration to this delicate balance of laws of Physics would end this Universe.


Again wrong, as I said above. If you change one constant, yes. But if you alter the combination of universal constants, you can still get a viable Universe, as I said above.

ray wrote:
One can say this fine tuning was pure chance, or,
one can say that the existence of some unknown Super Designer is probable.


There is no fine tuning. I think we need to add the fine tuning canard to the list.

ray wrote:
Where do you like to stand?


.


No designer, no design, no fine tuning. That's where I stand.
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#11  Postby campermon » Feb 27, 2010 8:24 pm

95Theses wrote:

Please don't break this one too soon everyone, it's the only one we have at the moment and the butterfly is hungry


:lol:
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#12  Postby Steve » Feb 27, 2010 8:26 pm

cursuswalker wrote:This Universe could exist within an eternal Cosmos, in which there exist all sorts of Universes with all sorts of physical laws. We, by definition, are in one where conscious life is possible. In the same way that there are many planets in this Universe and this is one where conscious life is possible.

Define "possible". If it doesn't exist, is it still "possible"? That gap might swallow your sanity if you let it.
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#13  Postby pensioner » Feb 27, 2010 8:29 pm

If the universe was designed for man the sod who designed it wants sacking. I would not buy anything in this world never mind the Universe if he was such a crap designer.
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#14  Postby cursuswalker » Feb 27, 2010 8:33 pm

pensioner wrote:If the universe was designed for man the sod who designed it wants sacking. I would not buy anything in this world never mind the Universe if he was such a crap designer.


To give just ONE example: explain the "design" of the recurrent leryngeal nerve. A nerve that means that a chest injury can rob me of the ability to speak. This is NOT good design.
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#15  Postby Alan C » Feb 27, 2010 8:40 pm

To early for a Jupiter reference?
:silenced:
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#16  Postby cursuswalker » Feb 27, 2010 8:43 pm

Alan C wrote:To early for a Jupiter reference?
:silenced:


It's NEVER too early for a Jupiter reference.............whatever that is.
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#17  Postby Mycernius » Feb 27, 2010 8:44 pm

Alan C wrote:To early for a Jupiter reference?
:silenced:

Who was it that said that Jupiter was put there by god to stop asteriods from hitting earth?
BTW if god did put it there then it did a shitty job
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_im ... s_on_Earth

Once more shows that if a god did exist the it is incompetant.
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#18  Postby Alan C » Feb 27, 2010 8:50 pm

The most recent one to assert that was Memories.
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#19  Postby cursuswalker » Feb 27, 2010 8:51 pm

And the dip in the ground in my back garden was put there to drain water from the other parts of the garden.
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Re: Who Designed the Universe?

#20  Postby UnderConstruction » Feb 27, 2010 9:04 pm

ray wrote:-

Who Designed the Universe?

The Universe is yet to be discovered because most of it consists of mysterious Dark Matter.

In fact, the complete Universe may never be discovered. So, lets not cross our fingers.

However, even the observable Universe appears to be very well designed.

But who or what designed these incredible laws that regulate this Universe.

If the fine tuning of the laws of that govern the Universe is not
a good evidence of deliberate design, then I dont know what else would be considered as
evidence of a intelligent designer.

Laws of nature are tuned to a very high degree.

Smallest alteration to this delicate balance of laws of Physics would end this Universe.

One can say this fine tuning was pure chance, or,
one can say that the existence of some unknown Super Designer is probable.

Where do you like to stand?


.


-

Who Designed the Designer?

The Designer is yet to be discovered because no evidence exists for his/her existence.

In fact, the Designer may never be discovered. So, lets not cross our fingers.

However, if we presuppose his/her existence without evidence the Designer appears to be very well designed to create universes.

But who or what designed these incredible abilities to create this Universe.

If the fine tuning of the laws of that govern the Designer is not
a good evidence of deliberate design, then I dont know what else would be considered as
evidence of the Designer having an intelligent designer.

The ability of this unsubstantiated being to create universes are tuned to a very high degree.

Smallest alteration to this delicate balance of universe creating abilities might even prevent this being from creating universes.

One can say this fine tuning was pure chance, or,
one can say that the existence of some unknown Super Designer of the Designer is probable.

Where do you like to stand?


.
"Origins from God/Genesis are secular actually as we see it." - Robert Byers
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