Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

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Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#1  Postby kennyc » Feb 17, 2013 11:00 pm

From the Atlantic. I"m wondering what people here think about patents on genetics/seeds which seems to be the issue here.


Monsanto's Supreme Court Seed Fight: What Would Woody Guthrie Think?
By Andrew Cohen

Feb 17 2013, 12:12 PM ET
....
On Tuesday morning, the justices will hear oral argument in a fascinating case that would very much have interested Guthrie were he alive today. The case is styled Bowman v. Monsanto and, technically, it's a conflict over seed-planning and federal patent law. It's a story about technology and innovation and investment, about legal standards and appellate precedent and statutory intent, about the nature of nature and how the law ought to answer the basic question of who owns the rights to the seeds of planted seeds.

Bowman v. Monsanto also touches upon many of the ancient themes and struggles that animated Guthrie's life and times: the little guy against big business, the small farmer against the agricultural conglomerate; the man of the land versus the agents of commerce. This is the story of who gets the reap the benefits of the good earth. Even Guthrie wouldn't have imagined the legal, economic or bio-ethical ramifications here. But House of Earth and Bowman, coming at the same time, remind us that some conflicts in America are eternal.
...


Much more here:
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc ... k/266072/#
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#2  Postby felltoearth » Feb 18, 2013 1:54 am

I have absolutely no problem with GM foods. I have a BIG fucking problem with the likes of the Monsantos in this world. This bullshit sent up huge flares for me.

Some economists also have chimed in, almost literally with this sky-is-falling warning: "At stake in this case is the continuing viability of agricultural innovation, which is indispensable to the feeding of the burgeoning world population."


What utter crap! Pharmaceutical patents have prevented proper treatment of third world diseases for years! I can't believe the absolute lies these people get away with and many others unthinkingly swallow.
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#3  Postby kennyc » Feb 18, 2013 1:59 am

felltoearth wrote:I have absolutely no problem with GM foods. I have a BIG fucking problem with the likes of the Monsantos in this world. This bullshit sent up huge flares for me.

Some economists also have chimed in, almost literally with this sky-is-falling warning: "At stake in this case is the continuing viability of agricultural innovation, which is indispensable to the feeding of the burgeoning world population."


What utter crap! Pharmaceutical patents have prevented proper treatment of third world diseases for years! I can't believe the absolute lies these people get away with and many others unthinkingly swallow.



I'm with you. I'm hoping the Supreme Court gets it right.
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#4  Postby Steve » Feb 18, 2013 2:10 am

felltoearth wrote:I have absolutely no problem with GM foods. I have a BIG fucking problem with the likes of the Monsantos in this world. This bullshit sent up huge flares for me.

Some economists also have chimed in, almost literally with this sky-is-falling warning: "At stake in this case is the continuing viability of agricultural innovation, which is indispensable to the feeding of the burgeoning world population."


What utter crap! Pharmaceutical patents have prevented proper treatment of third world diseases for years! I can't believe the absolute lies these people get away with and many others unthinkingly swallow.

Me too. Corporate law cooking is killing us, literally. Monsanto and its ilk are the new terrorists on the scene.

Meanwhile I am an omnivore...
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#5  Postby FACT-MAN-2 » Feb 18, 2013 4:12 am

Steve wrote:
felltoearth wrote:I have absolutely no problem with GM foods. I have a BIG fucking problem with the likes of the Monsantos in this world. This bullshit sent up huge flares for me.

Some economists also have chimed in, almost literally with this sky-is-falling warning: "At stake in this case is the continuing viability of agricultural innovation, which is indispensable to the feeding of the burgeoning world population."


What utter crap! Pharmaceutical patents have prevented proper treatment of third world diseases for years! I can't believe the absolute lies these people get away with and many others unthinkingly swallow.

Me too. Corporate law cooking is killing us, literally. Monsanto and its ilk are the new terrorists on the scene.

Meanwhile I am an omnivore...

I grow my own.

Mondanto is engaged in another case that will undoubtedly find its way to the SCOTUS, a relatively small farmer (two-three hundred acres) in Missouri whom they've sued because they claim he used "second and third generation seeds" he grew himself from GMO crops he'd grown, whch he readily admits he has indeed grown.

His counter claim is that he used seed stock any farmer can buy from a local outlet that's actualy headed into the animal food supply chain, and planted his crop with seeds from that stock, not from his GMO crops.

The question is can a seed patent include a right of control on second and third (or more) generation seeds? Does that patent hand down the way the genetics hand down?

Monsanto has alredy billed the farmer $86,000 for the seeds they claim he should have bought and didn't. The farmer says that would throw him into the poorhouse overnight.

This one will be interesting to follow.
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When will large scale corporate capitalism and government metamorphose to embrace modern thinking and allow us to live sustainably?
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#6  Postby kennyc » Feb 18, 2013 11:20 am

From Time:
Is It A Crime to Plant A Seed?
By Adam CohenFeb. 18, 2013Add a Comment

Vernon “Hugh” Bowman, a 75-year-old farmer from rural Indiana, did something that got him sued. He planted soybean seeds. But Monsanto, the agra-giant, insists that it has a patent on the kind of genetically-modified seed Bowman used — and that the patent continues to all of the progeny of those seeds.

Have we really gotten to the point that planting a seed can lead to a high-stakes Supreme Court patent lawsuit? We have, and that case is Bowman v. Monsanto, which is being argued on Tuesday. Monsanto’s critics have assailed the company for its “ruthless legal battles against small farmers,” and they are hoping that this will be the case that puts them in its place. They are also hoping that the court’s ruling will rein in patent law, which is increasingly being used to claim new life forms as private property.

Monsanto and its supporters, not surprisingly, see the case very differently. They argue that when a company like Monsanto goes to great expense to create a valuable new genetically modified seed it must be able to protect its property interests. If farmers like Bowman are able to use these seeds without paying the designated fee, they argue, it will remove the incentives for companies like Monsanto to innovate.

....


http://ideas.time.com/2013/02/18/is-it- ... nt-a-seed/
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#7  Postby kennyc » Feb 20, 2013 2:43 am

Uh Oh, doesn't look good for the farmer:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/busin ... .html?_r=0
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#9  Postby Jacquitoo » Feb 20, 2013 4:03 am

Great OP kennyc. I too will keep an eye on this question. But I am careful about consuming too much popcorn.
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#10  Postby Jacquitoo » Feb 20, 2013 4:28 am

"Corporate law cooking" thats a useful meme I will start transmitting in day to day life

After reading NY Times Business article I am sad :(

Those "justices" are more concerned with chuckles and in-jokes than justice.
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#11  Postby Loren Michael » Feb 20, 2013 5:38 am

IP law is such bullshit.
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#12  Postby tuco » Feb 20, 2013 7:46 am

ttt
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#13  Postby Horwood Beer-Master » Feb 20, 2013 1:51 pm

tuco wrote:ttt


Phenylalanine? :ask:
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#14  Postby kennyc » Feb 20, 2013 1:53 pm

Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
tuco wrote:ttt


Phenylalanine? :ask:


small pox vaccination?
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#15  Postby Sovereign » Feb 20, 2013 6:25 pm

So I'm curious now, let's say a competitor to Monsanto creates a GM soybean and it crosspollinates with Monsanto's, who will pay who? I know this is a hypothetical but it will be a reality in the next 15 years and this ruling has now determined that progeny of organisms with patented genes are still owned by the entity that created them.
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#16  Postby kennyc » Feb 20, 2013 6:27 pm

Great question. You should ask the judges....
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#17  Postby Sovereign » Feb 20, 2013 6:38 pm

Also, what defense does the farmer who doesn't have Monsanto soybeans have against Monsanto is a farmer using Roundup soybeans live within pollination range of his field? Plants are promiscuous and it's inevitable that the Roundup gene will wind up in the non-Monsanto farmer's seeds for the next year's use. This ruling in effect has given Monsanto the market until someone else patents a gene for use in soybeans.
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#18  Postby halucigenia » Feb 21, 2013 1:24 pm

Sovereign wrote:Also, what defense does the farmer who doesn't have Monsanto soybeans have against Monsanto is a farmer using Roundup soybeans live within pollination range of his field? Plants are promiscuous and it's inevitable that the Roundup gene will wind up in the non-Monsanto farmer's seeds for the next year's use. This ruling in effect has given Monsanto the market until someone else patents a gene for use in soybeans.

Yes, so any farmer that has not signed a contract with Monsanto could use the same technique that this farmer had (natural selection using Roundup as the environmental factor) to increase the stock of Roundup tolerant plants over the years. How on earth could this be controlled by the courts?
Even if they don’t do it deliberately you can imagine with the increased use of Roundup herbicide there will be a selection pressure on all crops adjacent to farms that have used Roundup excessively so that, if the farmer does save seed for the next year’s crop the ones that best survive are the ones that are Roundup tolerant. It’s simple evolution by natural selection.
It just goes to show how ludicrous it is to take a patent out on a living organism.

The following quote shows how ludicrous the whole thing is:-
“Why in the world,” Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. asked, “would anybody spend any money to try to improve the seed if as soon as they sold the first one anybody could grow more and have as many of those seeds as they want?”
If this was a valid argument farming would never have got a start in the first place. Breeders would never have tried to improve any organism if this is how they thought.

Breeders of any organism should expect that once they have sold their own reared and improved stock (usually at a premium which they will get if the farmer thinks the improvements are worth it) that these stock will themselves be bred from – that’s how farming and horticulture has worked for centuries. I see no reason to change this now simply because the breeding technology has advanced.

Also the quote:-
“Without the ability to limit reproduction of soybeans containing this patented trait,” he said, “Monsanto could not have commercialized its invention and never would have produced what is, by now, the most popular agricultural technology in America.”
Is bogus for the same reasons. Breeders generally do very well commercially form their stock if it is sufficiently popular with the people who appreciate the improvements.
Breeders of seed often produce F1 hybrids which do not breed true in subsequent generations and though these seeds are often popular if they give the growers great benefits breeders of seed that does breed true still do well out of their products.

Generally in modern agribusiness farming it pays to specialize in either farming or breeding and I would doubt if many modern large scale farmers would want to put the effort into growing their own seed stock rather than buying it in anyway.
However, patenting organisms so that you are not allowed to breed from them would potentially hit smaller scale and subsistence farmers who do generally grow their own seed stock. But would they be able to afford the Monsanto Roundup seed? Would they be able to afford the Roundup herbicide – it’s expensive you know. Would they want it?

Why are Monsanto selling Roundup resistant stock – because they can sell more herbicide if they do. :nono:
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#19  Postby tuco » Feb 22, 2013 7:25 am

kennyc wrote:
Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
tuco wrote:ttt


Phenylalanine? :ask:


small pox vaccination?


tttop and bookmarking as I was moving since I am in agreement with possibility outlined in one of the articles:

They say that if Monsanto wins, the impact will extend far beyond agriculture — locking up property rights in an array of important areas. Knowledge Ecology International — a nonprofit intellectual-property group that backs Bowman — contends that the Supreme Court’s ruling could have “profound effects” on other biotech industries, “including those involving cell lines, DNA or RNA sequences, virus strains and microorganisms.”

which I find important interesting unlike a case where someone shoots someone else.
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Re: Monsantos Supreme Court Genetic Patent Battle

#20  Postby kennyc » Feb 24, 2013 4:16 pm

Popped up at Huffington Post today: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/1 ... 17971.html

My thoughts are that if Monsanto expects the progeny in perpetuity of their genetically modified seeds to be their property that is just daft. Instead if they expect to protect their patent they need to make sure there are no progeny -- e.g. make plants non-fertile or producing non-viable seeds.
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