Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

You can probably guess what I think...

Explore the business, economy, finance and trade aspects of human society.

Moderators: Calilasseia, ADParker

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#101  Postby jamest » Mar 09, 2018 9:58 pm

I'm not on welfare, but if someone offers to feed me for the rest of my life I'll gladly accept.
They came, they saw, they concurred.
jamest
 
Posts: 17183
Male

Country: England
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#102  Postby LucidFlight » Mar 09, 2018 10:01 pm

jamest wrote:I'm not on welfare, but if someone offers to feed me for the rest of my life I'll gladly accept.

What if they only feed you tofu and pineapple for the rest of your life?
OFFICIAL MEMBER: QUANTUM CONSTRUCTOR CONSCIOUSNESS QUALIA KOALA COLLECTIVE.
User avatar
LucidFlight
RS Donator
 
Name: Luv
Posts: 9846
Female

Country: UK/US/AU/SG
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#103  Postby jamest » Mar 09, 2018 10:04 pm

LucidFlight wrote:
jamest wrote:I'm not on welfare, but if someone offers to feed me for the rest of my life I'll gladly accept.

What if they only feed you tofu and pineapple for the rest of your life?

I'll post it to KIR.
They came, they saw, they concurred.
jamest
 
Posts: 17183
Male

Country: England
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#104  Postby Fallible » Mar 10, 2018 7:28 am

There is absolutely no way I could let someone feed me for life if I don't have to.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 46718
Age: 45
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#105  Postby surreptitious57 » Mar 10, 2018 8:33 am


Apart from the obvious exceptions everyone should eat whatever they want to
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
surreptitious57
 
Posts: 9434

Print view this post

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#106  Postby jamest » Mar 11, 2018 12:40 am

Fallible wrote:There is absolutely no way I could let someone feed me for life if I don't have to.

Unless you hunt for your own food on a daily basis, deal with it. Otherwise we're talking dollars, in which case we're talking economics, in which case you should be careful with your $$, in which case you should be thankful if someone spares yours by feeding you.

This amounts to 'pride' for you, I think. That's bollocks. One should never refuse charity because of a stupid egotistical value such as pride. In the world of money, one should do what's best for one's family. Refusing the offer of some stranger to pay for your food within this context is actually utterly irrational.
Regards, as always.
They came, they saw, they concurred.
jamest
 
Posts: 17183
Male

Country: England
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#107  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Mar 11, 2018 12:49 am

Wtf? Why should anyone else feed my family if I'm perfectly capable of doing so?

Refusing charity where it's not needed is perfectly rational.
User avatar
Rachel Bronwyn
 
Name: a certain type of girl
Posts: 12014
Age: 30
Female

Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#108  Postby jamest » Mar 11, 2018 1:12 am

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:Wtf? Why should anyone else feed my family if I'm perfectly capable of doing so?

Refusing charity where it's not needed is perfectly rational.

I don't see any rational reason why a materialist/atheist should NOT do the best for themselves and their family by accepting as many free $$ as possible, even in the form of food. It amounts to good economics. Since the atheist/materialist cannot rationally justify their pride, where's the problem?

I'm not saying that anyone should suck dick here, but if your only concern is your physical life and wellbeing, why refuse a free meal? You have no reason to do so, if you are to remain loyal to your own metaphysics. Therefore, abandon the bullshit emotion and accept the freebies. Darwin himself would advise this. Regards.
They came, they saw, they concurred.
jamest
 
Posts: 17183
Male

Country: England
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#109  Postby Sendraks » Mar 11, 2018 1:24 am

jamest wrote:
I don't see any rational reason why a materialist/atheist should NOT do the best for themselves and their family by accepting as many free $$ as possible, even in the form of food.


Appeal to incredulity.

Also, its apparent there is a lot of basic human psychology that has completely passed you by. I would recommend not trying to form conclusions or lecture others, when you are doing so from a position of ignorance.

jamest wrote:I'm not saying that anyone should suck dick here, but if your only concern is your physical life and wellbeing, why refuse a free meal?

I have no objections to people buying me a meal on occasion. However, I also like to buy meals for people because I enjoy making other people happy. I also like being self-dependent and independent, so I determine where my next meal is coming from, what it will be, what it will cost and so on and so forth.

jamest wrote:Darwin himself would advise this. Regards.

Would he? Citation please!
"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion." - Arthur C Clarke

"'Science doesn't know everything' - Well science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it'd stop" - Dara O'Brian
User avatar
Sendraks
 
Name: D-Money Jr
Posts: 14687
Age: 102
Male

Country: England
Print view this post

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#110  Postby jamest » Mar 11, 2018 1:39 am

Sendraks wrote:
jamest wrote:
I don't see any rational reason why a materialist/atheist should NOT do the best for themselves and their family by accepting as many free $$ as possible, even in the form of food.


Appeal to incredulity.

Also, its apparent there is a lot of basic human psychology that has completely passed you by. I would recommend not trying to form conclusions or lecture others, when you are doing so from a position of ignorance.

jamest wrote:I'm not saying that anyone should suck dick here, but if your only concern is your physical life and wellbeing, why refuse a free meal?

I have no objections to people buying me a meal on occasion. However, I also like to buy meals for people because I enjoy making other people happy. I also like being self-dependent and independent, so I determine where my next meal is coming from, what it will be, what it will cost and so on and so forth.

You're not a bad bloke, but you talk a lot of bollocks. The bottom-line is that an atheist/materialist HAS NO REASON to 'be nice' except for selfish reasons. Likewise, he/she has no reason to refuse freebies, such as meals.

Be fucking consistent, at least. I mean, if you're an atheist/materialist who worships Darwin then prove that by doing the best for yourself and your family. That includes accepting free meals. Even sucking dick, to be honest. Enough have. Either adopt their attitude or rationally explain why you cannot. Or else, just stop bothering me. . . . . .
They came, they saw, they concurred.
jamest
 
Posts: 17183
Male

Country: England
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#111  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 11, 2018 3:53 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
Everybody I know has got enough money to piss it away on booze / fags / drugs / flash cars / foreign holidays

In which case you can easily pay for all of your meals and therefore have no reason to be getting any of them for free
There are people much worse off than you who need free meals more than you do so you are really taking from them


1. As laklak so eloquently put it "better in my pot than in the bin."
2. It is not economically feasible to export the leftover sandwiches from Prette Mange to the starving in Ethiopia.
3. The extremely wealthy get pleasure from donating to UK charities currently - that pleasure would be denied them if we stopped receiving their gifts.
"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear" - George Orwell
User avatar
Keep It Real
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 6417
Age: 37
Male

England (eng)
Print view this post

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#112  Postby Fallible » Mar 11, 2018 9:49 am

jamest wrote:
Fallible wrote:There is absolutely no way I could let someone feed me for life if I don't have to.

Unless you hunt for your own food on a daily basis, deal with it. Otherwise we're talking dollars, in which case we're talking economics, in which case you should be careful with your $$, in which case you should be thankful if someone spares yours by feeding you.

This amounts to 'pride' for you, I think. That's bollocks. One should never refuse charity because of a stupid egotistical value such as pride. In the world of money, one should do what's best for one's family. Refusing the offer of some stranger to pay for your food within this context is actually utterly irrational.
Regards, as always.


stop posting drunk.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 46718
Age: 45
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#113  Postby Sendraks » Mar 11, 2018 1:51 pm

jamest wrote:You're not a bad bloke, but you talk a lot of bollocks.


Says the man talking bollocks.
Seriously, lay off the sauce before posting, it'll minimise the amount of fatuous bile you post.

jamest wrote: The bottom-line is that an atheist/materialist HAS NO REASON to 'be nice' except for selfish reasons. Likewise, he/she has no reason to refuse freebies, such as meals.

Who says?
Jamest says!
And therefore no one gives a fuck.

jamest wrote: Be fucking consistent, at least. I mean, if you're an atheist/materialist who worships Darwin then prove that by doing the best for yourself and your family. That includes accepting free meals. Even sucking dick, to be honest. Enough have. Either adopt their attitude or rationally explain why you cannot. Or else, just stop bothering me. . . . . .

I don't worship Darwin.
I don't worship anyone one or anything.

If you want to argue the toss about your weird fictitious strawman of what atheism is, because you're drunk and that feeds your undeserved sense of moral superiority, then feel free. However, the only sensible thing to do in response is to ignore you until such time as your thinking intersects with reality and reason.
"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion." - Arthur C Clarke

"'Science doesn't know everything' - Well science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it'd stop" - Dara O'Brian
User avatar
Sendraks
 
Name: D-Money Jr
Posts: 14687
Age: 102
Male

Country: England
Print view this post

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#114  Postby surreptitious57 » Mar 11, 2018 3:25 pm

james wrote:
The bottom line is that an atheist / materialist HAS NO REASON to be nice except for selfish reasons

No one is nice except for selfish reasons

The desire to do good is because it makes you feel good too

Being an atheist or materialist has got nothing at all to do with it as that feeling is universal

Absolutely pure altruism cannot be found in human beings because we are simply not hard wired to be like this
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
surreptitious57
 
Posts: 9434

Print view this post

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#115  Postby zulumoose » Mar 12, 2018 2:48 pm

if you're an atheist/materialist who worships Darwin then prove that by doing the best for yourself and your family. That includes accepting free meals. Even sucking dick, to be honest.


So much fail in one small space.
Humans balance our social instincts by valuing independence while at the same time having a symbiotic relationship with society. This is how we have developed and progressed as a species. We have individual ambition yet also ties to society with concern for its welfare at the same time. It is a generally accepted moral duty to avoid accepting charity that would be best
received by others, not just a matter of pride, but concern for the welfare of others.

Religion has nothing to do with that whatsoever. Religion is just one more social grouping with rules and motivations. Sometimes it is charitable, sometimes it is just a hostile tribe. Belief in a deity is almost irrelevant to how people act. I doubt if most church goers are believers anyway, they certainly don't have a good record of religious knowledge and study on average, for people who are supposed to believe their god is the most important thing in their lives.
User avatar
zulumoose
 
Posts: 2927

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#116  Postby jamest » Mar 13, 2018 1:01 am

Fallible wrote:
jamest wrote:
Fallible wrote:There is absolutely no way I could let someone feed me for life if I don't have to.

Unless you hunt for your own food on a daily basis, deal with it. Otherwise we're talking dollars, in which case we're talking economics, in which case you should be careful with your $$, in which case you should be thankful if someone spares yours by feeding you.

This amounts to 'pride' for you, I think. That's bollocks. One should never refuse charity because of a stupid egotistical value such as pride. In the world of money, one should do what's best for one's family. Refusing the offer of some stranger to pay for your food within this context is actually utterly irrational.
Regards, as always.


stop posting drunk.

There was nothing within that post which hinted towards drunkeness, unless you didn't trust my 'regards' comment at the end? Therefore, stop posting derogatory comments as a retort to evading answering intelligent posts. Indeed, cease with the implication that you're just looking for negative thumbs-ups as a means of dealing with me.

I like you, sincerely, regardless of the shit you constantly give me, but if you're just going to post derogatory comments as a response to anything I say to you which you don't approve of, then I don't see the point any more of engaging with you. I know you've had a tough year, but taking it out on me ain't gonna help you. Not long-term, anyhow.

You can call me a drunk/cunt again if you wish, it will help me to clarify the situation. You'll no-doubt get a handful+ of thumbs-ups, though as long as you understand that I will NEVER be negatively affected by characters/shit such as you/this, as proved over two decades in holes such as this, by characters far more nasty than you, then fair enough. I've been accused by tosspots over those years of all sorts of things, including death threats and utter insanity. I'm still here!

A couple/few years ago hackenslash said to me that I was the 'best' theist he ever met wrt my ideas/attitude. I'm no longer sure if that holds for him, but what it means is that if I say something then you are obligated to either say something reasonable as a response, or else just shut your fuckin' gob, since as an atheist he is much more intelligent and knowledgable than yourself. I mean, I took plenty of shit from him, but at least he never ignored my comments whilst giving me that shit. He engaged with me, regardless.

If you choose not to engage with my comments again, then please just: stop posting pissed off.

Regards, again. And no, I'm not pissed. Nor pissed off. I just want you to stop acting like the sock puppet of a dick. If you choose to tow the same line, fair enough. Though if there's no semblance of reasonableness from you, just bitterness, then forgive me but I must obviously give up conversing with you. Regards, either way. Sincerely.
They came, they saw, they concurred.
jamest
 
Posts: 17183
Male

Country: England
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#117  Postby jamest » Mar 13, 2018 1:17 am

zulumoose wrote:
if you're an atheist/materialist who worships Darwin then prove that by doing the best for yourself and your family. That includes accepting free meals. Even sucking dick, to be honest.


So much fail in one small space.
Humans balance our social instincts by valuing independence while at the same time having a symbiotic relationship with society. This is how we have developed and progressed as a species. We have individual ambition yet also ties to society with concern for its welfare at the same time. It is a generally accepted moral duty to avoid accepting charity that would be best
received by others, not just a matter of pride, but concern for the welfare of others.

Religion has nothing to do with that whatsoever. Religion is just one more social grouping with rules and motivations. Sometimes it is charitable, sometimes it is just a hostile tribe. Belief in a deity is almost irrelevant to how people act. I doubt if most church goers are believers anyway, they certainly don't have a good record of religious knowledge and study on average, for people who are supposed to believe their god is the most important thing in their lives.

I read bollocks here on a regular basis, but your bollocks here demanded special treatment.

The point of Darwinism is that 'humans' are end-products of physical processes. 'They' don't get to balance or value anything, least of all choosing which relationships they shall pursue. Read 'mechanism/robot/puppet'.

You atheists want to have YOUR cake and eat it.
They came, they saw, they concurred.
jamest
 
Posts: 17183
Male

Country: England
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#118  Postby Spinozasgalt » Mar 13, 2018 2:37 am

Where does Darwinism say any of that? And why are you telling people to base their ethical decisions on Darwinism?

And how the heck does Hack's opinion of you obligate Fallible to do anything? :what:
When the straight and narrow gets a little too straight, roll up the joint.
Or don't. Just follow your arrow wherever it points.

Kacey Musgraves
User avatar
Spinozasgalt
RS Donator
 
Name: Jennifer
Posts: 17365
Age: 31
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#119  Postby Cito di Pense » Mar 13, 2018 4:09 am

jamest wrote:They' don't get to balance or value anything, least of all choosing which relationships they shall pursue.


Your hypothesis is that people act according to their beliefs, or at least that they should act according to their beliefs. Sadly for you, this is wrong, and people generally do as they please and believe what they want to. This also includes the stipulation that one can't make oneself believe something. Your 'philosophy' is the end product of trying to make yourself believe something, in effect, whatever you think the antithesis of "rational skepticism" should be, and it is manifestly bollocks. You don't have any facts at your disposal, so you should probably not try to tell us what Darwinism prescribes or entails. Remember, you say you don't read much, if anything at all (other than the posts you skim, here), and you've made yourself believe that sorting out our observations is a waste of time. In the short term, this may save you some work, but you haven't ever explained the point of quite that much laziness.

jamest wrote:I'm not saying that anyone should suck dick here, but if your only concern is your physical life and wellbeing, why refuse a free meal? You have no reason to do so, if you are to remain loyal to your own metaphysics. Therefore, abandon the bullshit emotion and accept the freebies. Darwin himself would advise this. Regards.


It's not so much refusing a free meal as not wanting to waste time on the paperwork, given the quality of the meal one is likely to get in a charity soup kitchen. Besides that, organisations dispensing charity often have needs-based filters, what some of the paperwork is about. The rest is based on exchange and mutuality and skill at negotiation.

Based on your output, here, I'd say you're either independently wealthy or living on benefits. Work seems alien to you, including the work necessary to avoid the kind of ignorance you're displaying, here.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
User avatar
Cito di Pense
 
Name: Ivar Poäng
Posts: 26263
Age: 7
Male

Country: The Heartland
Mongolia (mn)
Print view this post

Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#120  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 13, 2018 5:33 am

Cito di Pense wrote:...people generally do as they please and believe what they want to.


Iain Banks (RIP) wrote exactly these words in the intro to one of his novels. I disagreed with him and I disagree with you. People do not believe what they want; they believe what they perceive to be the truth.
"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear" - George Orwell
User avatar
Keep It Real
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 6417
Age: 37
Male

England (eng)
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Economics

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest