Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#21  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 9:32 am

I can't parse that sur. Please explain m8
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#22  Postby surreptitious57 » Feb 14, 2018 9:46 am


Those links have got nothing at all to do with the subject of this thread
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#23  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 9:51 am

Well; you seem to have said that you consider it normal for human beings to fly to tourist destinations a quarter of the way around the world every year. I was just trying to make the point that it really isn't if one looks at the bigger picture.
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#24  Postby surreptitious57 » Feb 14, 2018 10:26 am

This thread is not about the bigger picture but having a rich life on benefits
And as I have disproved your argument then there is no point to it any more
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#25  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 10:42 am

surreptitious57 wrote:This thread is not about the bigger picture but having a rich life on benefits

You're the one who mentioned benefits first sur. This thread is about what the thread title says it's about. I will re-phrase it however; why not. Do those Europeans "at the bottom of the financial food chain" bathe in luxury? My answer is yes.

And as I have disproved your argument then there is no point to it any more

Er; where have you done that sur? My perception is that my position (and zulumoose's too it seems) is running riot all over this thread, and that your protestations hold about as much water as an upturned glass.
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#26  Postby surreptitious57 » Feb 14, 2018 11:29 am

You said Everybody I know has got enough money to piss it away

Everybody
by definition includes anyone you know on benefits and so even though
I mentioned benefits first you by implication originally alluded to them in your OP

However people on four to nine hundred quid a month are not pissing it away
They may be living within their means but that is something else entirely

What is happening in South Africa is also not the subject of this thread
As you are only talking about people you know where you actually live

So much goalpost moving from you and in such a short thread too
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#27  Postby surreptitious57 » Feb 14, 2018 11:33 am


I am leaving it there because as I said you just keep moving the goalposts
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#28  Postby surreptitious57 » Feb 14, 2018 11:49 am


This thread is about none of these as you never mentioned them in the OP

People who take a foreign holiday every three years

People who own a second hand Beemer

The economic situation in South Africa

The use of fire by early hominids

The first commercial jet liner

Prostitutes in Bristol


So I think now is a good time to leave

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#29  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 11:51 am

Suit yourself sur :dunno:

Kettles/toasters/washing machines/dishwashers/electric fans...
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#30  Postby zulumoose » Feb 14, 2018 11:53 am

I visited the North of England in 2015 and can confirm by all accounts that there seems to be a whole generation there who have never worked and appear to have no intention of ever working. These people do not want for housing, appliances, food, medical attention, education, or apparently drinking money. If that does not imply a post scarcity economy, then I must be defining it wrong.

If you can live your whole life just on what you are entitled to as a citizen, with a degree of comfort and privacy (ie not in an institution) then isn't that post scarcity?
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#31  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 12:11 pm

It's not even the fact that many people don't have to work much/at all really imo zulumoose; it's all the luxury goods/services we have - and of course we take the vast majority for granted and many even complain that the resources at their disposal are woefully inadequate because...well...fuck knows why actually :dunno:
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#32  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 12:21 pm

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell play people what they do not want to hear" - George Orwell
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#33  Postby surreptitious57 » Feb 14, 2018 2:31 pm

Some people do not understand the difference between a luxury and a necessity. Water and food and clothing and shelter
are necessities. Televisions and computers and mobile phones are luxuries. And it may be rather inconvenient not to have
the latter but you will not die without them. I would bet there are a significant minority of the population of this country
who would have real difficulty in understanding the distinction

Many people like you and I may not work but remember that it is taxpayers who actually pay our bills. As without them we would have nothing. And which is why I would never get in to an argument with one over it. Though I recently saw such an argument on twitter between two people. The unemployed one was actually saying how he contributes to the economy by spending his money. It had to be pointed out to him that his money was earned by taxpayers not by him but unfortunately such a simple undeniable fact could not be understood by him. I mean where did he think that it came from for Gods sake
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#34  Postby zulumoose » Feb 14, 2018 2:52 pm

The unemployed one was actually saying how he contributes to the economy by spending his money.


I See it as there being a two part justification for supporting the unemployed.

1) The humanitarian part, which consists of human decency and the realisation that anyone could be in that position, even if only temporarily.

2) The practical part, which consists of weighing up the pros and cons of leaving the unemployed to their own devices, sponging off family or engaging in crime, some living in abject poverty. This costs society in many ways, and a relatively rich society can afford to take a lot of steps to make things better, even if only for the purely selfish reason of not having to live in a society with more problems.

Someone who can work, but chooses not to even try simply because he is comfortable enough without the extra income, is, whether he likes it or not, a drain on society. Without him, there would be either less tax taken from the workers, or more tax available to spend on services that benefit everyone else.

If anyone doubts that, simply ask them if the country would benefit from having a million more people supported by grants. If they say no, ask whether then, the country would benefit by having a million LESS people supported by grants. If they don't then get the point, there is no hope, walk away.
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#35  Postby laklak » Feb 14, 2018 3:49 pm

Basically the working folks pay the non-working folks so the non-working ones won't eat them. Keep them in roll ups and Sainsbury's lager and they leave you alone. We don't do that here (to that extent, anyway), but we're allowed to have assault rifles to shoot them when they try to swim across the moat. Then we fish whatever the alligators don't eat out of the moat and feed it to the pit bulls.
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#36  Postby surreptitious57 » Feb 14, 2018 3:59 pm

Paying some one benefit who is too lazy to work is financially better than letting them turn to crime to fund their life
style but should be no more than the minimum which is required to keep them in food and clothing and pay their bills

I am a great advocate of making the unemployed work to earn their benefit and I am unemployed also
So one day a week doing public work would be ideal but doing absolutely nothing is not an option here

I have been so long unemployed that I spend most of my free time reading as knowledge acquisition is my goal in life
However if I had to do some public work then I would gladly go do it instead of making excuses about being exploited
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#37  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 17, 2018 6:09 pm

Keep It Real wrote:Bread and eggs aren't the only cheap foods available sur - would you like some more examples?


Bag of 20 frozen sausages (£1) and 8 burgers (£1.35) and they're tasty too! Absolutely fine! :awesome:
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#38  Postby minininja » Feb 17, 2018 6:20 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:Bread and eggs aren't the only cheap foods available sur - would you like some more examples?


Bag of 20 frozen sausages (£1) and 8 burgers (£1.35) and they're tasty too! Absolutely fine! :awesome:

From a man in the pub that definitely hasn't lifted them off the back of a lorry?
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#39  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 17, 2018 6:29 pm

Oh contrair me amigo - straight outa ASDA
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#40  Postby minininja » Feb 17, 2018 7:27 pm

Wow. I found them. With a whopping 37% of their content that they can legally call pork, the second ingredient after water.

Storage And Usage Statements

Keep Frozen

:lol:
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