Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#81  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 23, 2018 9:23 am

Fallible wrote:And disability,

The disabled receive extra help; as long as the system is working properly.

Fallible wrote:and early abuse,

That falls into the category of serious mental health problems by my mind.

Fallible wrote:and old age,

The elderly receive extra help, if they need it; as long as the system is working properly.

Fallible wrote:and lack of education,

That may well fall into the category of serious mental health problems by my mind again, although if you simply mean "stupidity" then I guess I agree...

Fallible wrote:and learning disabilities.

Those with learning disabilities receive extra help (eg. supported accommodation), if they need it; as long as the system is working properly.
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#82  Postby zulumoose » Feb 23, 2018 9:38 am

Well one solution to welfare money being spent on booze/fags/drugs etc would be to return to ration books/food stamps.

The problem and argument against that is dignity, people are treated differently if they pay with ration books/stamps etc. It was all very well during the war/post-war years when everyone had them, not now. Apparently the British public were healthier during that time than they have been ever since, well according to some reports anyway, perhaps just anecdotal.

So the solution? How about a government issued debit card that works just like a credit card at pay points, BUT purchases are tracked and classified, only so much is available for items not on a list of necessities, and the higher the percentage of purchased items that IS on the list at participating stores, the more points scored which leads to extra credit.

A similar system is up and running in South Africa at the moment. I get 25% of my healthy food purchases at a major supermarket paid back into my bank account every month by my medical insurance company. If Africa can get it right, why not the UK?
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#83  Postby Macdoc » Feb 23, 2018 12:29 pm

Well one solution to welfare money being spent on booze/fags/drugs etc would be to return to ration books/food stamps.


that's been disproven in field trials of supplemental incomes.
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#84  Postby zulumoose » Feb 23, 2018 12:37 pm

Macdoc wrote:
Well one solution to welfare money being spent on booze/fags/drugs etc would be to return to ration books/food stamps.


that's been disproven in field trials of supplemental incomes.


?? what trials, how were they constructed and why did they fail?

I don't understand how giving an addict credit for $10 worth of bread could be worse than giving him $10.
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#85  Postby felltoearth » Feb 23, 2018 1:44 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... fe735c5c12

The biggest problem isn’t what the poor are spending their money on, it’s that they aren’t saving for their old age.
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#86  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 23, 2018 3:26 pm

Keep It Real wrote:Strawman. I never said I think that SAM. I said "poverty/destitution basically only exists in Europe due to people spending too much of their money on fags/booze/drugs/Gucci handbags/gerbil food (etc ad infinitum obviously). Oh yeah and serious mental health problems.

Ok, assuming you could provide actual statistical evidence for this assertion, so what?
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#87  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 23, 2018 5:39 pm

Not provocative TBH.
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#88  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 23, 2018 5:52 pm

I'm not sure what being provocative has anything to do with anything. Are you going to answer my question, or is it safe to assume you aren't actually talking about anything?
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#89  Postby laklak » Feb 23, 2018 6:04 pm

We used to use food stamps, now it's on a debit card thingy. It resulted in a gigantic black market for stamps. I could buy food stamps in the grocery store parking lot for 50 cents on the dollar. They'd take the cash and buy fags and booze and dope, I'd take the stamps and save 50% on my food bills. Win-Win. I ain't proud, and I'm sure some folks looked at me buying $20 a pound filet mignon and got really, really pissed off.
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#90  Postby Fallible » Feb 23, 2018 6:18 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Fallible wrote:And disability,

The disabled receive extra help; as long as the system is working properly.

Fallible wrote:and early abuse,

That falls into the category of serious mental health problems by my mind.

Fallible wrote:and old age,

The elderly receive extra help, if they need it; as long as the system is working properly.

Fallible wrote:and lack of education,

That may well fall into the category of serious mental health problems by my mind again, although if you simply mean "stupidity" then I guess I agree...

Fallible wrote:and learning disabilities.

Those with learning disabilities receive extra help (eg. supported accommodation), if they need it; as long as the system is working properly.


You live in cloud cuckoo land.
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#91  Postby The_Piper » Feb 23, 2018 7:05 pm

Fallible wrote:
...cloud cuckoo land.
:tehe: I'd never heard that phrase.
laklak wrote:We used to use food stamps, now it's on a debit card thingy. It resulted in a gigantic black market for stamps. I could buy food stamps in the grocery store parking lot for 50 cents on the dollar. They'd take the cash and buy fags and booze and dope, I'd take the stamps and save 50% on my food bills. Win-Win. I ain't proud, and I'm sure some folks looked at me buying $20 a pound filet mignon and got really, really pissed off.
:shock: (the filet mignon)
Now they could just have the drug dealer write out a grocery list. Though I'm guessing most drug dealers would prefer the cash at that point. :lol:
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#92  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 23, 2018 7:54 pm

laklak wrote:We used to use food stamps, now it's on a debit card thingy. It resulted in a gigantic black market for stamps. I could buy food stamps in the grocery store parking lot for 50 cents on the dollar. They'd take the cash and buy fags and booze and dope, I'd take the stamps and save 50% on my food bills. Win-Win. I ain't proud, and I'm sure some folks looked at me buying $20 a pound filet mignon and got really, really pissed off.

Probably because what you did was illegal.
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#93  Postby laklak » Feb 23, 2018 8:20 pm

That is sort of the purpose of a black market. Yep, selling them was illegal, buying them was illegal. But lots of stuff is illegal. Pulling your own wiring or changing a power outlet, repairing a sewer line, smoking weed, flushing your sanitary tanks within 9 miles of the Gulf coast, putting a lower price on a receipt for tax purposes, all illegal.
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I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that - Oscar Wilde
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#94  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 23, 2018 8:36 pm

laklak wrote:That is sort of the purpose of a black market. Yep, selling them was illegal, buying them was illegal. But lots of stuff is illegal. Pulling your own wiring or changing a power outlet, repairing a sewer line, smoking weed, flushing your sanitary tanks within 9 miles of the Gulf coast, putting a lower price on a receipt for tax purposes, all illegal.

So's murder, but I note you left that one off in an attempt to make taking advantage of a welfare recipient and stealing from taxpayers sound like smoking a harmless substance and replacing an outlet you're skilled enough to replace. Unless you don't think we should discourage morons who don't know what they're doing from burning buildings down.
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#95  Postby laklak » Feb 23, 2018 9:12 pm

Meh, you call it stealing, I call it capitalism. Once the stamp booklet is in the hands of the recipient it's theirs to do what they want with. If they want to sell it at a discount what business is it of the governments? Is it only food stamps, or should the government restrict what they can buy with their welfare check? This is the mindset that leads to testing welfare recipients for drugs, to make sure they're spending their money on approved things.
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The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#96  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 09, 2018 3:21 am

Had four meals yesterday and only paid for one of them. The last one was the best: chunky pesto; humus; pickle; roasted peppers; salad leaves; mayonnaise; cherry tomatoes; dressed salad leaves and toast. All free apart from the mayo toast and pickle. Earlier in the day I'd had a double helping of chicken and mushroom pie; mashed potato; garden peas and gravy. Later I had a smoked salmon, egg and salad leave salad. Did I feel
Fallible wrote:ashamed
In the slightest? Did I fuck.
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#97  Postby Fallible » Mar 09, 2018 2:04 pm

Did you need to do that, or choose to? The fact you had 4 meals and seconds points to 'choose'. If you can't work out why you didn't feel ashamed, I can't help you.
Sorry that you think you had it rough in the first world.
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#98  Postby surreptitious57 » Mar 09, 2018 5:59 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Everybody I know has got enough money to piss it away on booze / fags / drugs / flash cars / foreign holidays

In which case you can easily pay for all of your meals and therefore have no reason to be getting any of them for free
There are people much worse off than you who need free meals more than you do so you are really taking from them
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#99  Postby The_Piper » Mar 09, 2018 6:58 pm

Keep It Real wrote:Did I fuck.

So is that a yes or a no? :shifty:
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#100  Postby surreptitious57 » Mar 09, 2018 9:12 pm


It is a no otherwise he would not have done it three times in a day
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