Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#41  Postby Hermit » Mar 29, 2020 10:53 am

tuco wrote:I have not seen the other posts you guys talk about

No problem, tuco. Just some byplay. Irrelevant to this topic.

You have seen post #36 in this thread, though, yes?
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#42  Postby tuco » Mar 29, 2020 11:08 am

From where I sit, it's her/his right to advocate whatever. I mean, I don't really care as long as we are musing how to construct and conduct an experiment which could give some insight into what OP called "steering groups".

History tells us that every system was overcome. Personally, I find (mentioned recently in another thread) socialism(communism)/fascism as concepts of the past and there is no reason to believe that future systems will only copy past systems. Rapid technological progress of past few decades allowed us what was never possible before and I like to think that future systems will use technology heavily thus defining new system we perhaps do not have a term for yet. But that is for another debate.

Where was I? Yeah, well, I guess we are done here then :)
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#43  Postby Cito di Pense » Mar 29, 2020 12:04 pm

tuco wrote:Rapid technological progress of past few decades allowed us what was never possible before and I like to think that future systems will use technology heavily thus defining new system we perhaps do not have a term for yet.


Yes, it would be terrible indeed, if we already had a term for it. As if I want to waste my time wibbling dicklessly in the absence of a language we don't yet speak.
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#44  Postby tuco » Mar 29, 2020 12:14 pm

We can, however, talk about elements of such a hypothetical system. Again, the topic, as I understand it, is an experiment to test models.
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#45  Postby Xerographica » Mar 29, 2020 9:06 pm

Today I saw this in one of my FB plant groups...

Image

Would democracy or donations have made a better decision whether to banish him?

Big picture...

1. Joining a FB group is ridiculously easy
2. Testing out different steering mechanisms, even fatally flawed ones, is ridiculously beneficial
3. Leaving a FB group is ridiculous easy
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#46  Postby Cito di Pense » Mar 30, 2020 5:36 am

Xerographica wrote:
3. Leaving a FB group is ridiculous easy


Dis da shiznit. I've been looking for confirmation that it's not much easier to get into some trouble than out of it.
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#47  Postby laklak » Mar 31, 2020 11:24 pm

Your idea is how the U.S. political system works. The people with the money make donations and they steer the politicians. That's the way the world goes around.
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#48  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 01, 2020 6:18 am

laklak wrote:Your idea is how the U.S. political system works. The people with the money make donations and they steer the politicians. That's the way the world goes around.


Who knew?
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#49  Postby Xerographica » Apr 01, 2020 7:37 am

laklak wrote:Your idea is how the U.S. political system works. The people with the money make donations and they steer the politicians. That's the way the world goes around.

The US political system isn't just donations/lobbying, it is also democracy. What I'm suggesting is that we test donations and democracy separately. We use donations to solely steer one FB group. We use democracy to solely steer another FB group. And then we compare the results.
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#50  Postby OlivierK » Apr 01, 2020 7:39 am

Why stop at Facebook groups?

The United States of America is a group entirely steered by donations. Compare the results.

Edit: I should read more, then post. Sorry, lak!
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#51  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 01, 2020 7:41 am

Xerographica wrote:it is also democracy.


Opportunity is not the same thing as democracy.
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#52  Postby OlivierK » Apr 01, 2020 7:46 am

Xerographica wrote:2. Testing out different steering mechanisms, even fatally flawed ones, is ridiculously beneficial

Well, I'm sure you'd like to think that owning a FB group where people tried to outbid each other for control could be ridiculously beneficial (for the owner), and who knows, maybe you'll meet a group of people stupid enough to participate in the "Is getting into a bidding war over who can give Xerographica the most money a great way of running things?" experiment. Gotta have dreams.
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#53  Postby laklak » Apr 01, 2020 3:24 pm

It's an oligarchy. Then there's an Olliegarchy, or rule by those who blame Stanley for all the mess.
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#54  Postby Xerographica » Apr 01, 2020 3:41 pm

OlivierK wrote:
Xerographica wrote:2. Testing out different steering mechanisms, even fatally flawed ones, is ridiculously beneficial

Well, I'm sure you'd like to think that owning a FB group where people tried to outbid each other for control could be ridiculously beneficial (for the owner), and who knows, maybe you'll meet a group of people stupid enough to participate in the "Is getting into a bidding war over who can give Xerographica the most money a great way of running things?" experiment. Gotta have dreams.

Group ownership is one of the things that could certainly be decided by donations. And I love the idea of donors having the freedom to specify how their donations are used.

Which steering mechanism do you think is best? And why not test it using a FB group?
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#55  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 01, 2020 3:53 pm

Xerographica wrote:And I love the idea of donors having the freedom to specify how their donations are used.


Each to his own, I guess. I like the idea of somebody doing something I like, and then donating to register my approval. Imagine the Red Cross consulting you about what they should do with your (prospective) donation. Thanks for the laughs.
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#56  Postby Xerographica » Apr 01, 2020 4:03 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
Xerographica wrote:And I love the idea of donors having the freedom to specify how their donations are used.


Each to his own, I guess. I like the idea of somebody doing something I like, and then donating to register my approval. Imagine the Red Cross consulting you about what they should do with your (prospective) donation. Thanks for the laughs.

Do you equally like everything that the Red Cross does? What about the government, do you equally like everything that it does?
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#57  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 01, 2020 4:23 pm

Xerographica wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
Xerographica wrote:And I love the idea of donors having the freedom to specify how their donations are used.


Each to his own, I guess. I like the idea of somebody doing something I like, and then donating to register my approval. Imagine the Red Cross consulting you about what they should do with your (prospective) donation. Thanks for the laughs.

Do you equally like everything that the Red Cross does? What about the government, do you equally like everything that it does?


I'm not interested in everything the Red Cross (or the government) does, Xerographica, because I'm not in the grip of some narcissistic control fantasy that makes lists prioritizing everything. That's just my lack of existential angst talking.
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#58  Postby Xerographica » Apr 01, 2020 5:17 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
Xerographica wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
Xerographica wrote:And I love the idea of donors having the freedom to specify how their donations are used.


Each to his own, I guess. I like the idea of somebody doing something I like, and then donating to register my approval. Imagine the Red Cross consulting you about what they should do with your (prospective) donation. Thanks for the laughs.

Do you equally like everything that the Red Cross does? What about the government, do you equally like everything that it does?


I'm not interested in everything the Red Cross (or the government) does, Xerographica, because I'm not in the grip of some narcissistic control fantasy that makes lists prioritizing everything. That's just my lack of existential angst talking.

Right now you're free to decide how you divide your donations between the Red Cross and the Humane Society. Is this freedom beneficial? Yes, because society benefits from knowing your true priorities.

Not that your priorities are always going to be "correct". But it behooves us to know what they truly are.
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#59  Postby Thommo » Apr 01, 2020 5:19 pm

Society knows about the anonymous charitable donation of a forum member whose real name we don't even know? And not only does it know, it benefits?
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Re: Let’s Use Facebook Groups To Test Steering Mechanisms

#60  Postby Xerographica » Apr 01, 2020 5:58 pm

Thommo wrote:Society knows about the anonymous charitable donation of a forum member whose real name we don't even know? And not only does it know, it benefits?

Imagine you're at the beach and somebody shouts "shark!!!" Maybe it's a prank? Maybe it isn't. But in any case it is beneficial for everybody at the beach to have the freedom to shout if they see a shark.

If you're a mind-reader, you'd instantly know if the shouter was serious. Plus you'd instantly know if it was a baby shark or a big one. But if it was a big shark, would you know if it was the type that eats people? What percentage of people know that whale sharks don't eat people?

Nobody is a mind-reader which is why communication is so important. It allows us to benefit from each other's eyes, ears and brains.

If somebody anonymously donates, it's not like they are going to do so so randomly. They have information that leads them to believe that whatever they are donating for is important. Is their information correct? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but society certainly benefits from the person's freedom to use their money to communicate what is important to them.

My main main main point is that we can, and should, use FB groups to test and compare steering mechanisms.
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