Money, Power and the American Dream

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Money, Power and the American Dream

#1  Postby kennyc » Sep 24, 2013 12:27 pm

If you can spare an hour this will open your eyes:

Independent Lens:
Park Avenue: Money, Power & the American Dream…..

Amazing!

http://video.pbs.org/video/2296684923/

And damn scary

The 1% and the Gap is bigger then ever and growing. There is no longer or soon to be no longer a middle class upon who's back the country depends.

740 Park Avenue - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/740_Park_Avenue

http://www.amazon.com/740-Park-Richest- ... nskepti-20

http://www.businessinsider.com/740-park ... 11-12?op=1

discuss:
:grin:
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#2  Postby FACT-MAN-2 » Oct 19, 2013 7:20 pm

kennyc wrote:If you can spare an hour this will open your eyes:

Independent Lens:
Park Avenue: Money, Power & the American Dream…..

Amazing!

http://video.pbs.org/video/2296684923/

And damn scary

The 1% and the Gap is bigger then ever and growing. There is no longer or soon to be no longer a middle class upon who's back the country depends.

740 Park Avenue - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/740_Park_Avenue

http://www.amazon.com/740-Park-Richest- ... nskepti-20

http://www.businessinsider.com/740-park ... 11-12?op=1

discuss:
:grin:

I think we've all known for some time now that the so-called "American Dream" has morphed into the American nightnmare as the middle class has been hammered nearly out of existence. Americans now appear to realize that the game is rigged against them and becoming more so with each passing year as the rich get richer while they suffer in the doldrums of an ever declining share of wealth and equity.

It's hard to say where this will end, or if it will end at all. The country has become a two class oligarchy, with one per cent of the people holding more wealth than the other 99 per cent and four people (the heirs to the Walmart fortune) holding more wealth than the bottom 60 per cent. This is akin to the way things are in most third world countries and suggests that America has joined those ranks.

The trends are all well set in place and any chances of there being any great changes are about nil. If you don't live in America, be glad you don't and if you do you should probably think about moving elsewhere, as I did myself 43 years ago when I saw this handwriting on the wall and departed for greener pastures.

Get out while the gettins' good.
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When will large scale corporate capitalism and government metamorphose to embrace modern thinking and allow us to live sustainably?
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#3  Postby Keep It Real » Oct 24, 2013 5:11 pm

What would it take for there to be a revolution? I know the tea party represent the "to the right of the republicans" political ideology, but is there a "to the left of the democrats" grass roots movement at all which might campaign to address the wealth inequality. I've never heard of one, but to break the two party system something of that nature seems inevitable?
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#4  Postby orpheus » Oct 24, 2013 6:01 pm

Keep It Real wrote:What would it take for there to be a revolution? I know the tea party represent the "to the right of the republicans" political ideology, but is there a "to the left of the democrats" grass roots movement at all which might campaign to address the wealth inequality. I've never heard of one, but to break the two party system something of that nature seems inevitable?


Occupy. Many people laughed at it and derided it. But it got to be pretty big and widespread. And the immediate and violent crackdown on it by those in power was not accidental: Occupy really did (does?) represent what you're talking about. The 1% saw that as a very clear threat.
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#5  Postby kennyc » Oct 24, 2013 6:06 pm

orpheus wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:What would it take for there to be a revolution? I know the tea party represent the "to the right of the republicans" political ideology, but is there a "to the left of the democrats" grass roots movement at all which might campaign to address the wealth inequality. I've never heard of one, but to break the two party system something of that nature seems inevitable?


Occupy. Many people laughed at it and derided it. But it got to be pretty big and widespread. And the immediate and violent crackdown on it by those in power was not accidental: Occupy really did (does?) represent what you're talking about. The 1% saw that as a very clear threat.



I agree. At the time I said (somewhere....maybe not here) that was the beginning of the end.....could still be.
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#6  Postby Keep It Real » Oct 24, 2013 6:20 pm

Thanks Orpheus and KennyC. In the UK the Occupy movement here were portrayed by the media as being a disorganised rabble, more like Pussy Riot than the Tea Party - not a serious/significant political movement at all. I didn't follow the media much at the time of the US Occupy events but did they really have many constructive suggestions for change, a legitimate political entity, or were they sounding more like Russell Brand?
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#7  Postby FACT-MAN-2 » Nov 30, 2013 10:14 pm

Keep It Real wrote:Thanks Orpheus and KennyC. In the UK the Occupy movement here were portrayed by the media as being a disorganised rabble, more like Pussy Riot than the Tea Party - not a serious/significant political movement at all. I didn't follow the media much at the time of the US Occupy events but did they really have many constructive suggestions for change, a legitimate political entity, or were they sounding more like Russell Brand?

I'm a bit late chiming in here, but for what it's worth the OWS movement in the States quickly ballooned into a nationwide affair that soon spread into Mexico and Canada. The media treated it pretty much for what it was, a reasonably well organized effort to bring attention to the excesses of Wall Street and the big banks and especially to income inequality and the destruction of the middle class.

The most notable demonstration occurred in New York City's financial district, where protesters took over Zuccotti Park and built a community, complete with library and other amenities. They managed to hang on there some months before the scene was raided and torn asunder by police, in the middle of the night in early November, 2011. Everything and anything was destroyed. It wasn't the only police attack that occurred there but it was the coup de grace. It was kind of weird in that the park was privately owned and its owners had not complained about its occupation.

They had what I tought was a pretty good agenda, which included a list of demands and plans for a national confab the following year, at which they wanted to form a third party and select candidates to run in the next election. But somehow that all faded pretty quickly and within six months the movement appeared to be dead. Part of its demise occurred because no strong or charismatic leaders emerged, in part because the media refused to identify any or to give column inches and time or pixels to any who might have played that role. There seemed to be reticence among the protesters to even have leaders.

Everone was impressed by their non-violent means and their openly democratic processes through which decisions were made. Nobody felt real good about the way law enforcement came down on them, often employing brutal means.

It's always been a bit of a puzzle to me just how and why it died after less than a year after it enjoyed such a rousing beginning. Itreminded me a good deal of the antiwar moveent in the 60s, complete with long hair and hooka pipes and colorful attire.

There's a pretty good rundown of all this at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#8  Postby Macdoc » Dec 01, 2013 1:22 am

One of the issues is that social change on a large scale is usually driven by young people as the the baby boomers did in the 60s.
Occupy could have been a start...might still be BUT....there are not enough kids to drive this change and the vested interests are too entrenched.

If you don't remember Kent State and the events leading up to it and after it you won't understand the violence in the air then.....and the drive for change on a number of fronts.
The 70s were fucking violent.....and it did engender change.

Now the boomers are entrenched and there are not enough kids in the population to make a dent. This is very much about demographics for the US and to some degree the rest of the first world ( Japan for sure ).

The odd possibility is the richest of the boomers like Gates moving into Rockefeller turf and putting the money and energy into this change the way the Rockefeller Foundation did and does sponsor the best and the brightest.
Originally to a large degree Rockefeller invented public health and libraries after getting disgusted with the religious charities that kept their hand out and did squat with his funding.

Now Gates and a few others are firing up change with their wealth and getting others of the whale class to do the same. The ideals of the 60s may still lurk. There is a bit of a ground swell, minimum wage, living wage etc.

Not enough kids....but maybe the boomers have one more social upheaval in them.
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#9  Postby Macdoc » Dec 02, 2013 3:52 am

Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#10  Postby orpheus » Dec 02, 2013 5:01 am

FACT-MAN-2 wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:Thanks Orpheus and KennyC. In the UK the Occupy movement here were portrayed by the media as being a disorganised rabble, more like Pussy Riot than the Tea Party - not a serious/significant political movement at all. I didn't follow the media much at the time of the US Occupy events but did they really have many constructive suggestions for change, a legitimate political entity, or were they sounding more like Russell Brand?

I'm a bit late chiming in here, but for what it's worth the OWS movement in the States quickly ballooned into a nationwide affair that soon spread into Mexico and Canada. The media treated it pretty much for what it was, a reasonably well organized effort to bring attention to the excesses of Wall Street and the big banks and especially to income inequality and the destruction of the middle class.

The most notable demonstration occurred in New York City's financial district, where protesters took over Zuccotti Park and built a community, complete with library and other amenities. They managed to hang on there some months before the scene was raided and torn asunder by police, in the middle of the night in early November, 2011. Everything and anything was destroyed. It wasn't the only police attack that occurred there but it was the coup de grace. It was kind of weird in that the park was privately owned and its owners had not complained about its occupation.

They had what I tought was a pretty good agenda, which included a list of demands and plans for a national confab the following year, at which they wanted to form a third party and select candidates to run in the next election. But somehow that all faded pretty quickly and within six months the movement appeared to be dead. Part of its demise occurred because no strong or charismatic leaders emerged, in part because the media refused to identify any or to give column inches and time or pixels to any who might have played that role. There seemed to be reticence among the protesters to even have leaders.

Everone was impressed by their non-violent means and their openly democratic processes through which decisions were made. Nobody felt real good about the way law enforcement came down on them, often employing brutal means.

It's always been a bit of a puzzle to me just how and why it died after less than a year after it enjoyed such a rousing beginning. Itreminded me a good deal of the antiwar moveent in the 60s, complete with long hair and hooka pipes and colorful attire.

There's a pretty good rundown of all this at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street


Another serious thing was that the police cracked down - literally and with physical violence - not just on the protesters themselves, but also on the reporters covering the story. The press ran critical articles about this, of course, but with nowhere near the amount of sustained journalistic heat they should have. The powers that be violated basic civil liberties and did their best to make sure nothing concrete and provable was reported. Thus violating any number of laws as well as further civil liberties (a free press) on another front.

This double violence was one of the things that indicated that Occupy was being taken very seriously indeed.
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#11  Postby FACT-MAN-2 » Dec 02, 2013 6:30 pm

orpheus wrote:
FACT-MAN-2 wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:Thanks Orpheus and KennyC. In the UK the Occupy movement here were portrayed by the media as being a disorganised rabble, more like Pussy Riot than the Tea Party - not a serious/significant political movement at all. I didn't follow the media much at the time of the US Occupy events but did they really have many constructive suggestions for change, a legitimate political entity, or were they sounding more like Russell Brand?

I'm a bit late chiming in here, but for what it's worth the OWS movement in the States quickly ballooned into a nationwide affair that soon spread into Mexico and Canada. The media treated it pretty much for what it was, a reasonably well organized effort to bring attention to the excesses of Wall Street and the big banks and especially to income inequality and the destruction of the middle class.

The most notable demonstration occurred in New York City's financial district, where protesters took over Zuccotti Park and built a community, complete with library and other amenities. They managed to hang on there some months before the scene was raided and torn asunder by police, in the middle of the night in early November, 2011. Everything and anything was destroyed. It wasn't the only police attack that occurred there but it was the coup de grace. It was kind of weird in that the park was privately owned and its owners had not complained about its occupation.

They had what I tought was a pretty good agenda, which included a list of demands and plans for a national confab the following year, at which they wanted to form a third party and select candidates to run in the next election. But somehow that all faded pretty quickly and within six months the movement appeared to be dead. Part of its demise occurred because no strong or charismatic leaders emerged, in part because the media refused to identify any or to give column inches and time or pixels to any who might have played that role. There seemed to be reticence among the protesters to even have leaders.

Everone was impressed by their non-violent means and their openly democratic processes through which decisions were made. Nobody felt real good about the way law enforcement came down on them, often employing brutal means.

It's always been a bit of a puzzle to me just how and why it died after less than a year after it enjoyed such a rousing beginning. Itreminded me a good deal of the antiwar moveent in the 60s, complete with long hair and hooka pipes and colorful attire.

There's a pretty good rundown of all this at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street


Another serious thing was that the police cracked down - literally and with physical violence - not just on the protesters themselves, but also on the reporters covering the story. The press ran critical articles about this, of course, but with nowhere near the amount of sustained journalistic heat they should have. The powers that be violated basic civil liberties and did their best to make sure nothing concrete and provable was reported. Thus violating any number of laws as well as further civil liberties (a free press) on another front.

This double violence was one of the things that indicated that Occupy was being taken very seriously indeed.

Any protest or protest movement that's critical of the status quo will be taken seriously and treated in this manner, that is, harshly and with violent means.
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#12  Postby orpheus » Dec 02, 2013 8:50 pm

But I don't recall any other case in which reporters - who were not protesters - were attacked by the police, jailed without cause, cameras destroyed, etc.
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#13  Postby FACT-MAN-2 » Dec 02, 2013 9:01 pm

orpheus wrote:But I don't recall any other case in which reporters - who were not protesters - were attacked by the police, jailed without cause, cameras destroyed, etc.

That's because, aside from OWS, there haven't been any notable protests against the status quo
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#14  Postby orpheus » Dec 02, 2013 10:56 pm

FACT-MAN-2 wrote:
orpheus wrote:But I don't recall any other case in which reporters - who were not protesters - were attacked by the police, jailed without cause, cameras destroyed, etc.

That's because, aside from OWS, there haven't been any notable protests against the status quo


But I'm thinking historically, too. The protests of the 60s and early 70s? Those were certainly against the status quo, yet unless I'm mistaken, members of the press were not attacked while covering the events.
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#15  Postby FACT-MAN-2 » Dec 03, 2013 6:04 pm

orpheus wrote:
FACT-MAN-2 wrote:
orpheus wrote:But I don't recall any other case in which reporters - who were not protesters - were attacked by the police, jailed without cause, cameras destroyed, etc.

That's because, aside from OWS, there haven't been any notable protests against the status quo

But I'm thinking historically, too. The protests of the 60s and early 70s? Those were certainly against the status quo, yet unless I'm mistaken, members of the press were not attacked while covering the events.

Two things: 1) some reporters were attacked during antiwar protests in the 60s and 70s (I know, I was there), although not quite as blatantly or harsh as they were during OWS protests; 2) law enforcement and government have evolved since those days and now make fewer distinctions between protestors and media types. Today, anyone on the scene is considered fair game.

In other words, things have gotten worse in the intervening years.
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#16  Postby orpheus » Dec 04, 2013 1:37 am

FACT-MAN-2 wrote:
orpheus wrote:
FACT-MAN-2 wrote:
orpheus wrote:But I don't recall any other case in which reporters - who were not protesters - were attacked by the police, jailed without cause, cameras destroyed, etc.

That's because, aside from OWS, there haven't been any notable protests against the status quo

But I'm thinking historically, too. The protests of the 60s and early 70s? Those were certainly against the status quo, yet unless I'm mistaken, members of the press were not attacked while covering the events.

Two things: 1) some reporters were attacked during antiwar protests in the 60s and 70s (I know, I was there), although not quite as blatantly or harsh as they were during OWS protests; 2) law enforcement and government have evolved since those days and now make fewer distinctions between protestors and media types. Today, anyone on the scene is considered fair game.

In other words, things have gotten worse in the intervening years.


That makes sense. I don't know as much as I should about the 60s and 70s protests. I vaguely remember the later ones, but I was born in '64, so I was too young to understand much of what was going on.

It also makes sense that things have gotten worse. I'm not sure why, or what it means, but it's pretty awful.
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#17  Postby Macdoc » Dec 04, 2013 2:49 am

Boomers to the rescue

I have known since my early thirties that I was going to give my wealth back to society. The success of Microsoft provided me with an enormous fortune, and I felt responsible for using it in a thoughtful way. I had read a lot about how governments underinvest in basic scientific research. I thought, that’s a big mistake. If we don’t give scientists the room to deepen our fundamental understanding of the world, we won’t provide a basis for the next generation of innovations. I figured, therefore, that I could help the most by creating an institute where the best minds would come to do research.


http://www.wired.com/business/2013/11/b ... ton-wired/

They share much more than a first name. Both pivoted from spectacular first acts to second careers devoted to tackling some of the biggest problems on the planet. To do this, they have capitalized on their previous roles, their connections, and their brainpower. In Clinton’s case, it turned out that the attributes that make for the ultimate politician work equally well in the service of philanthropy.

As founder of the Bill, Hillary & Chelsea Clinton Foundation, the former president is a forceful explainer in chief, elucidating what needs to be done to alleviate poverty and treat AIDS. And to the surprise of many who followed Gates as a full-tilt techie devoted to preserving Microsoft’s dominance, he has pursued philanthropy with the same passion he once channeled into software. At the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, he approaches problem-solving—particularly the scientific arcana of health and agriculture—with an appreciation of scale honed by years of living under Moore’s law.

Both organizations have made a staggering impact. The Clinton Global Initiative, part of the former president’s foundation, claims to have improved the lives of more than 430 million people in 180 countries. The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has by some estimates saved some 6 million lives and delivered a higher-quality existence to many, many more.

The foundations are at the forefront of a new era in philanthropy, in which decisions—often referred to as investments—are made with the strategic precision demanded of business and government, then painstakingly tracked to gauge their success. The Gates Foundation shot to philanthropic heights instantly after its launch in 2000, with the world’s richest man pledging the bulk of his fortune—$28.7 billion so far—and, after 2008, the bulk of his attention. (Gates has challenged other rich industrialists to follow his altruistic lead, most notably his pal Warren Buffet.) Making use of a mind so precise and logical that it once crunched the entire Basic computer language into 4 kilobytes of memory, Gates demands metrics to show that his investments are getting results. “I have been struck again and again by how important measurement is to improving the human condition,” he wrote in this year’s annual progress report. One current priority: Gates is pursuing the world’s remaining cases of polio with the zeal of a Javert. His foundation’s activities include expanding the role of libraries as digital centers, revamping teacher evaluations, promoting genetically redesigned seeds, and devising improved condoms and toilets.

The Clinton Foundation is less a funder than a launching pad for projects benefiting the global good. It organizes its interests in nine separate tracks, encompassing achievable goals that range from improving AIDS treatment to reducing greenhouse gas emissions. These are often in sync with the United Nations’ Millennium Development Goals, benchmarks to improve conditions in eight key areas, including combatting poverty and disease. The Clinton Global Initiative encourages its deep-pocketed members to take action, requiring them to make commitments once they figure out what projects to undertake. Each commitment must be original, specific, and measurable. CGI facilitates the projects, often by tapping its extensive networks.


actually my druthers would be they fix the US neglected corners.
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Re: Money, Power and the American Dream

#18  Postby FACT-MAN-2 » Dec 04, 2013 5:40 pm

Macdoc wrote:Boomers to the rescue

(snippage)

actually my druthers would be they fix the US neglected corners.

They probably figure those neglected corners will take care of themselves, the way the country took care of them.
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