Unconditional Basic Wage

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Re: Unconditional Basic Wage

#41  Postby Nicko » Dec 28, 2016 3:18 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Nick

The problem is that there will not be the jobs to go around. Full time work will be a thing of the past for the majority of people.
You two options: 1. Play the game we are playing and allow the two tier society we have already just get more extreme ending up with people dying or living in abject poverty or 2. spread the limited work around allowing people to supplement the UBI.
The UBI should sufficient for people to live soberly on and the extra income would add the few frills.

The big problem for many societies is the mind change required and that is one thing I have great doubts about especially in countries like America.

Of course there are plenty of facets to take off but it does offer a way out of a very difficult problem; just what are you going to do with the unemployed.


Scott

I basically agree, but the problem - as I said - is in the implementation.
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Re: Unconditional Basic Wage

#42  Postby Scot Dutchy » Dec 28, 2016 3:20 pm

Just what I am saying Nick. The mind change for certain countries will be impossible.
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Re: Unconditional Basic Wage

#43  Postby Scot Dutchy » Dec 28, 2016 3:23 pm

Sendraks wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Where Britain did squander money was during the oil boom. Thatcher wasted it on smashing the unions.


Well as I say, we have a history of UK Government's being horribly wasteful with money.

Scot Dutchy wrote:Looking back today there are many who think we should have not accepted Marshall aid as it tied us for years to American coat tails. Remember the USA made a killing from Marshall Aid and most of Europe ended in long term debt.


Given the aid really did help kick start European economies post WWII and has led to countries like Germany being able to outcompete the US in various industries (because the US didn't modernise its industry post WWII), the plan was worth it to certain recipients in the long term.


It did at the time and those who have commented will agree it did kick start Europe but question the debt incurred could have differently handled.
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Re: Unconditional Basic Wage

#44  Postby Sendraks » Dec 28, 2016 3:27 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:It did at the time and those who have commented will agree it did kick start Europe but question the debt incurred could have differently handled.


Again, that's going to vary from nation to nation. The difference the aid made to Germany's economy, far outstripped what they had to pay back which was, by the time they did pay it back (plus debts from post WWI) it was negligible in terms of their economy. The mileage of other nations varied.
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Re: Unconditional Basic Wage

#45  Postby tuco » Dec 28, 2016 3:33 pm

It should really be merged with the thread linked in OP imo but I can pretend its one.

Finnland testet bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen - http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/f ... 94377.html

As Google translates it: "You can count on the money coming on time." and I think its an important element. Not only for the people receiving the money, but for policy makers and businesses also as it helps to co-create environment of stability, thus predictability.
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Re: Unconditional Basic Wage

#46  Postby Scot Dutchy » Dec 28, 2016 4:34 pm

Sendraks wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:It did at the time and those who have commented will agree it did kick start Europe but question the debt incurred could have differently handled.


Again, that's going to vary from nation to nation. The difference the aid made to Germany's economy, far outstripped what they had to pay back which was, by the time they did pay it back (plus debts from post WWI) it was negligible in terms of their economy. The mileage of other nations varied.


The Dutch did not get a good deal. Something stupid about pride etc. and also paying back every cent. Typical!
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Re: Unconditional Basic Wage

#47  Postby Galactor » Feb 23, 2017 4:29 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Just what I am saying Nick. The mind change for certain countries will be impossible.


Last Sunday I watched the Andrew Marr Show and during the papers review, the subject of a basic income was touched on. The Ukip MP Douglas Carswell basically poured scorn on the idea, secure in the knowledge that it "wouldn't work" because the Romans (known for their software, AI and machine automation) had tried it and it didn't work then either!

Marr didn't challenge him on this, nor either of the other guests, but if the basic logic skills of MPs is this bad, it's going to take a long time.
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Re: Unconditional Basic Wage

#48  Postby Scot Dutchy » Feb 23, 2017 5:23 pm

Afraid so.
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