Our daughters (10 and 8) reported today that a teacher who was really problematic for our family before is back from maternity leave. The other kids in the school are 7-13 years old, and right now she has not been given a class of her own. But next fall? All ideas how to be optimally prepared, yet not hysterical, are extremely welcome.

Her values & beliefs are visible through e.g. the public links below. She has used "end times harvest", "drunk in Jesus", "burning for God" and such concepts in her public writing, since at least 2002. She has participated in at least two Great Awakening tours , and praised in her blog Rodney Howard-Browne and the "Soul-winning Script" he had provided them with, as a tool for quickly and efficiently soliciting conversions.

According to one father who was interviewed for TV in the same program as I, before she left her class' math & physics learning results dropped to an alarming level, she had claimed in class that only few people believe in evolution and most people in "something else", and arranged a healing prayer session for a pupil with a chronic (incurable) disease, in the classroom. She got a verbal warning from the headmaster for that. Me, whom she knew to be an atheists, she used to treat like air, but a few weeks ago we met in a swimming hall, and she was quite short but entirely civil.

Links in English:
The bible school she and her husband have graduated from: http://www.revival.com/rbi
Her public role before bible school: http://www.yfci.org/yfci/country.php?id=117
http://www.revival.com/gat-internationa ... 2004.1.htm
http://tiihonen.blogspot.com/2006/12/lo ... tions.html
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=8 ... 97&index=1

Links in Finnish:
http://tiihonen.blogspot.com/2007/05/he ... hinta.html
http://www.tv7.fi/site/pdfarchive/TV7_U ... 004-03.pdf - page 9
http://tulijavapaus.blogspot.com/2009_0 ... chive.html
http://www.eduskunta.fi/faktatmp/utatmp ... 02_p.shtml
her statement is not on the web, but a copy can be ordered form the Library of Parliament (free postage in Finland)

Links in Swedish:
http://hannad.blogspot.com/2007/05/nuor ... -2007.html
http://mickelsson.net/era/index.php?lan ... &p=Nyheter
http://www.eduskunta.fi/faktatmp/utatmp ... 02_p.shtml
her statement is not on the web, but a copy can be ordered form the Library of Parliament (free postage in Finland)

If it were my children, I would probably be hysterical. Do you know if she will get your children's classes in one or more subjects? If she won't be having any subjects with your children, I would probably try to leave it, but if she do get one of your children's classes, I would write a formal complaint to the school if she continues her behaviour. (She may have changed, and left her healing sessions at home, although I doubt it.) I don't have any experience in this sort of thing - only formal complaining, as I did that in my previous schools - so sorry if it doesn't help you much. Also, I would actually advice you, or other parents who have their children in her classes, to go to the media and complain/inform/talk about it. In most cases, that has shown somewhat effective, because no school wants that kind of reputation, so if you say that you will go to the newspaper with the story if nothing is done, they may do something. Or maybe that's a low thing to do? I don't care either way, I guess, it helps.

Thanks for the support, Mystery, it means a lot.

MysteryTupperware wrote:Do you know if she will get your children's classes in one or more subjects? ... if she do get one of your children's classes, I would write a formal complaint to the school if she continues her behaviour.

She will teach half of my Elder Daughter's (soon 11 years old) German classes. We have spoken about this teacher many, many times with our kids, and had this discussion at breakfast today:

R: <addressing Elder Daughter> Now when you are in class with [TeacherName], you will be kind and corteous, and do your best.
ED: <nods>
R: And if she ever mentions religion in class, all you need to do is calmly put up your hand and say that this is German class and that she has no need to mention religion here. You don't need to get angry or anything, just point it out.
ED: <thinks a bit> I think [ClassmateName] can help - he is in Ethics class, too [as opposed to Religion, editor's note]
R: That sounds good, I'll email his mother today to make sure she knows to support him.

MysteryTupperware wrote: Also, I would actually advice you, or other parents who have their children in her classes, to go to the media and complain/inform/talk about it.

We already did, before she came back. There was a 30 min report on two difficult teachers on our FST (TV channel), with one dad and me interviewed about her (the other half of the report was about another school in another county). I hope that puts the brakes on her for a while at least.

Thankfully, the next-nearest primary school isn't that far from our home, either, if things get really out of hand.

But I am so not happy about this - I would have other issues to use my time and energy on...

It sounds like you've handled the situation quite well. You say there's another school nearby. How bad does the situation need to be before you choose to switch schools? Is there a reason you might be hesitant to switch?

Keep a record of as much as you can, a diary or something so that if it escalates you have a time-line and evidence to support your position. If the Principal is a reasonable person have a friendly chat just to voice your concerns. They might pay a little more attention to the class if they know parents are unhappy.

I dread having kids, the local school round here is scary, we have had school leavers and Saturday staff kids who couldn't turn fractions into decimals, use basic grammar or know where the major cities were in their own country and one girl admitted to me she didn't know whether to use "is" or "are" when writing to customers. An evangelist in the school and I'd probably be wanting to go and sit in the class with a pointy stick.

Poke - Poke - Back to the curriculum!

Hey Zeus! wrote:It sounds like you've handled the situation quite well. You say there's another school nearby. How bad does the situation need to be before you choose to switch schools? Is there a reason you might be hesitant to switch?

It's important to note that there is no "situation" yet, as she has only been back for 3 days today (she returned from maternity leave 1st March 2010). There is a history, and for that history she has been officially reprimanded. So in all fairness she must get a second chance, IMO.

When to switch schools: If we see our kids suffering in a manner than cannot be handled with support, as "just a part of life", about then would be the time, I guess. School is tough at times, but should not be too cruel - no kids should habitually e.g. loose sleep or have stomach aches just because of school.

Why not be hasty with switching schools: Our kids have lots of friends at school, the local library is just round the school corner, the walk is short and safe, and no new school is going to be perfect, either.

Thanks for asking, I like the way it gets me thinking more constructively and analytically, instead of just fretting.

Soopercynic wrote:Keep a record of as much as you can, a diary or something so that if it escalates you have a time-line and evidence to support your position.

Will definitely do that. Thanks for the reminder!

Soopercynic wrote: If the Principal is a reasonable person have a friendly chat just to voice your concerns. They might pay a little more attention to the class if they know parents are unhappy.

It was various parents' (including us) repeatedly reporting about her (before the maternity leave) that lead to the Principal giving her a verbal reprimand in the first place. I guess we need to regroup now, support each other, maybe share a diary on Google Docs or something, so we are optimally prepared if something unpleasant / outside the curriculum should happen.

I guess I need to check if certain email addresses are up-to-date, and contact at least a few key people of the "resistance" movement...

Thanks for the practical viewpoint - it helps!

Ronja wrote:Our daughters (10 and 8) reported today that a teacher who was really problematic for our family before is back from maternity leave. The other kids in the school are 7-13 years old, and right now she has not been given a class of her own. But next fall? All ideas how to be optimally prepared, yet not hysterical, are extremely welcome.

Her values & beliefs are visible through e.g. the public links below. She has used "end times harvest", "drunk in Jesus", "burning for God" and such concepts in her public writing, since at least 2002. She has participated in at least two Great Awakening tours , and praised in her blog Rodney Howard-Browne and the "Soul-winning Script" he had provided them with, as a tool for quickly and efficiently soliciting conversions.

According to one father who was interviewed for TV in the same program as I, before she left her class' math & physics learning results dropped to an alarming level, she had claimed in class that only few people believe in evolution and most people in "something else", and arranged a healing prayer session for a pupil with a chronic (incurable) disease, in the classroom. She got a verbal warning from the headmaster for that. Me, whom she knew to be an atheists, she used to treat like air, but a few weeks ago we met in a swimming hall, and she was quite short but entirely civil.

Links in English:
The bible school she and her husband have graduated from: http://www.revival.com/rbi
Her public role before bible school: http://www.yfci.org/yfci/country.php?id=117
http://www.revival.com/gat-internationa ... 2004.1.htm
http://tiihonen.blogspot.com/2006/12/lo ... tions.html
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=8 ... 97&index=1

Links in Finnish:
http://tiihonen.blogspot.com/2007/05/he ... hinta.html
http://www.tv7.fi/site/pdfarchive/TV7_U ... 004-03.pdf - page 9
http://tulijavapaus.blogspot.com/2009_0 ... chive.html
http://www.eduskunta.fi/faktatmp/utatmp ... 02_p.shtml
her statement is not on the web, but a copy can be ordered form the Library of Parliament (free postage in Finland)

Links in Swedish:
http://hannad.blogspot.com/2007/05/nuor ... -2007.html
http://mickelsson.net/era/index.php?lan ... &p=Nyheter
http://www.eduskunta.fi/faktatmp/utatmp ... 02_p.shtml
her statement is not on the web, but a copy can be ordered form the Library of Parliament (free postage in Finland)

Where are you located? You might be able to bring legal action.

NineOneFour wrote:Where are you located? You might be able to bring legal action.

Sorry, I thought I had set my location, but apparently only on rationalia.com - fixed that, I think - you do see my location below my avatar photo now?

We are in Helsinki, Finland. Regarding legal action: she has had a history, for which she has been reprimanded. She is now back since 1st march 2010, after extended maternity leave, so things have had a chance to cool down, which I think is good. So far nothing out of the ordinary has happened (after all, it's only been three days). I do not want to pester her, if there is no reason. I sincerely hope she has learned a lesson. Yet, at the same time I want to be well prepared and vigilant, as her values and lifestyle do not appear to have changed - based on what one can see publicly on the Net, anyway.

OK, I've sent the first local message asking for support, to the one person who has been the most constant and level-headed sounding board through the previous crisis with this same teacher. Now I will need patience, as this person does not read private messages every day (has a really busy job).

I wonder if there is a "remember this" or HowTo list on ACLU's or AA's or some humanist site, about what to do and what not to do if one ends up in [potential] conflict with an overly religious teacher - or if no such list exists, how we could best put one together.

Many thanks to all who have responded - it means indescribably much in a situation like mine.

[edit for typo]

Last thing I would advise is going to the media. They would look at the story and print what side sells best leaving you and the kids with media hounds.

Keep a record of what your kids say about her class, read up on what regulations govern teachers in your country, regulatory bodies, unions etc on the www, if the teacher does something wrong, it be better to have other parents side with you and take it to the headmaster and if needs be to your local MP for further action.

Complain about the wrong being done to the child, not the person per sa or religion.

I understand why you would rather spend time and energy on something else (and hopefully things will be fine, and you will be able to do so), but remember that you are demonstrating to your kids some very important life lessons. I'm sure they've already learned a lot from the talks you have had with them about this teacher, and they will be more likely to (1) stand up for their principles and (2) take responsibility for their situations, rather than just complain, because of what they have seen you do. Try to take heart from that.

Peter Brown wrote:Last thing I would advise is going to the media. They would look at the story and print what side sells best leaving you and the kids with media hounds.

I would find that advice easy to believe, if my own experience hadn't been different. I'm not sure I would have sought media exposure if we lived in the US or in Italy, for example. But there are some advantages in being a part of a minority: the only Swedish-speaking TV channel in Finland would not get too many interviews anymore if they started to grossly misrepresent people. When one of their freelance journalists contacted me, I spoke to her first unofficially a few times on the phone, checked her background, exchanged a bit of email and then decided that I trusted her enough to take the risk of a TV interview. Knowing that she had already shot two other interviews and would get one more, I did not feel too much in the limelight. Our kids' names weren't even mentioned in the program, which got positive and supportive reactions from a number of people I know. The teacher refused to take any part, so her name could not be mentioned, but it all worked out pretty well anyhow.

Peter Brown wrote:Keep a record of what your kids say about her class, read up on what regulations govern teachers in your country, regulatory bodies, unions etc on the www, if the teacher does something wrong, it be better to have other parents side with you and take it to the headmaster and if needs be to your local MP for further action.

Complain about the wrong being done to the child, not the person per sa or religion.

Will do, have done, and yes, I agree. Thanks for the input!

I would find that advice easy to believe, if my own experience hadn't been different.

As I said it can go either way when the media gets involved as their work is to sell news, the operative word being sell. I've heard of instances when a story was sent for publicity and it totally backfired, and that is the risk. Understandably you don't want risks like that when your child is involved you want a safe teaching environment where teaching and education isn't the 'fanatical' preaching of religions by one rogue individual.

Ronja wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:Where are you located? You might be able to bring legal action.

Sorry, I thought I had set my location, but apparently only on rationalia.com - fixed that, I think - you do see my location below my avatar photo now?

I do, yes, and maybe you could discuss the relative percentage of religious people and the influence of the churches in Finland. It's probably a topic for another thread, actually, so I'll start it!

We are in Helsinki, Finland. Regarding legal action: she has had a history, for which she has been reprimanded. She is now back since 1st march 2010, after extended maternity leave, so things have had a chance to cool down, which I think is good. So far nothing out of the ordinary has happened (after all, it's only been three days). I do not want to pester her, if there is no reason. I sincerely hope she has learned a lesson. Yet, at the same time I want to be well prepared and vigilant, as her values and lifestyle do not appear to have changed - based on what one can see publicly on the Net, anyway.

What's astonishing is that here an atheist teacher who espoused atheism would likely be reprimanded.

Just a brief update - all seems to be going smoothly for the time being:

I have heard nothing from anyone - our kids or other parents - during last spring that would indicate any problems with the teacher I wrote about.

We received the class teacher lists for school year 2010-2011, just before the end of the last term. The teacher in question will teach neither of our kids (deep sigh of relief). She is also visibly pregnant, so she will take her maternity leave sometime before xmas break and most likely be gone at least until the end of school year 2010-2011, and likely a bit longer.

With any luck our eldest will be out of primary school by the time the evangelical teacher is ready to get a class of her own again, and Younger Daughter is quite a tough cookie, so at the moment I feel at ease.

Thanks, everyone, for your input and support!