Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#61  Postby Shrunk » May 20, 2015 4:02 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Why waste money on fairy tales? You cant give an overview of any branch of religion so why try. Just refer to religion in a historical context is more than enough.

Public schools here dont even touch on religion outside of history.


Admittedly, most of what I know about the UK's RE program is from this forum but, based on that, it does sound like a mess. It just seems like a chance for various religions to proselytize on the public's dime. Having different points of view presenting their best case does not achieve objectivity or neutrality. But I doubt those are the goals of this course, any way.
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#62  Postby Sendraks » May 20, 2015 4:19 pm

Shrunk wrote:Admittedly, most of what I know about the UK's RE program is from this forum but, based on that, it does sound like a mess. It just seems like a chance for various religions to proselytize on the public's dime. Having different points of view presenting their best case does not achieve objectivity or neutrality. But I doubt those are the goals of this course, any way.


I concur with it being a mess, at least it was "back in my day." Quality and content varied hugely from teacher to teacher and school to school, depending on how seriously the school took the subject. I don't recall being taught anything about religion in a way that encouraged students to analyse it or question it. One teacher in particular took umbrage with any sort of criticism of bible stories.
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#63  Postby Bud's Brain » May 20, 2015 5:12 pm

So I spoke to the Head of House a moment ago. I was met with blank incomprehension. He has no idea what the RE teachers are doing. I'll stick with the plan of meeting with the head and RE teacher.
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#64  Postby Clive Durdle » May 20, 2015 5:16 pm


Kids won't voluntarily learn stuff out of school.

Really?

Growing up, Michael Rosen’s mum and dad taught him to ask questions, to explore ideas and to learn about everything. He says parents can be their children’s best teachers – through the stuff of daily living, not lists of dry facts


http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... ey-to-life

Michael Rosen, the poet, broadcaster and former children’s laureate, has written a book on how to educate kids at home. As you might imagine, this has nothing to do with anything as dry and fusty as maths papers or lists of spelling and everything to do with the mess of ordinary life – the kitchen, the bathroom, the bottom of the garden.

It’s about trapping and scrutinising nits and listening to the pulse in your ear; it’s about telling stories and collecting old stones, messing about with the wires in old plugs and recounting Greek myths. His advice is inspiring and entertaining and thrilling and, at the same time (I felt I had to tell him), possibly apt to make the average, shall we say lazier, parent feel like a bit of a failure …

“Oh God. Oh no. Oh, don’t feel that,” Rosen says. “Oh no. Oh no. You’re not supposed to do all of it all of the time. Just some of it. Sometimes.” He cracks his hand against his forehead. “I don’t want anyone to feel guilty. Remember I’ve been doing this for …” he widens his mouth in an exaggeration of a wince. “Almost 40 years.”
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#65  Postby Bud's Brain » May 20, 2015 5:45 pm

Yes, well. The average teenager has no interest in anything other than Whatsapp and Instagram. My daughter is a glaring anomaly. That's not a mother's blindness - I listen to her peers.

Teenage girls are left cold by Michael Rosen et al.
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#66  Postby Alan B » May 21, 2015 10:02 am

Bud's Brain wrote:So I spoke to the Head of House a moment ago. I was met with blank incomprehension. He has no idea what the RE teachers are doing. I'll stick with the plan of meeting with the head and RE teacher.

Interesting that the head hadn't got a clue what was going on. The school may have improved but that doesn't excuse his ignorance or lack of awareness of what is being taught in his school.
Should be interesting to hear what the RE teacher has to say.
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#67  Postby HughMcB » May 21, 2015 1:21 pm

Bud's Brain wrote:So I spoke to the Head of House a moment ago. I was met with blank incomprehension. He has no idea what the RE teachers are doing. I'll stick with the plan of meeting with the head and RE teacher.

In my RE class we mostly were allowed to study for real subjects. The odd time we'd watch a video. And then one time we did have a bible quiz but the teacher got pissed because I (being the open piss taker of Catholicism) scored the highest in the class by a mile. I told her Jesus must love me the most. We didn't do any more after that. :grin:
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#68  Postby Thomas Eshuis » May 21, 2015 1:23 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Why waste money on fairy tales? You cant give an overview of any branch of religion so why try. Just refer to religion in a historical context is more than enough.

Public schools here dont even touch on religion outside of history.

The bolded bit is not true Scot.
Many public elementary schools offer Comparative Religion, often next to Humanism lessons.
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#69  Postby Scot Dutchy » May 21, 2015 1:32 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Why waste money on fairy tales? You cant give an overview of any branch of religion so why try. Just refer to religion in a historical context is more than enough.

Public schools here dont even touch on religion outside of history.

The bolded bit is not true Scot.
Many public elementary schools offer Comparative Religion, often next to Humanism lessons.


Offer Thomas not compulsory. That is also at primary level grade 1.
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#70  Postby Zwaarddijk » May 21, 2015 2:05 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Why waste money on fairy tales? You cant give an overview of any branch of religion so why try. Just refer to religion in a historical context is more than enough.

Public schools here dont even touch on religion outside of history.

The bolded bit is not true Scot.
Many public elementary schools offer Comparative Religion, often next to Humanism lessons.


Offer Thomas not compulsory. That is also at primary level grade 1.

You said they don't even touch it - never said anything about compulsoriness or anything. Please don't fucking shift goalposts.
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#71  Postby Thomas Eshuis » May 21, 2015 3:55 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Why waste money on fairy tales? You cant give an overview of any branch of religion so why try. Just refer to religion in a historical context is more than enough.

Public schools here dont even touch on religion outside of history.

The bolded bit is not true Scot.
Many public elementary schools offer Comparative Religion, often next to Humanism lessons.


Offer Thomas not compulsory. That is also at primary level grade 1.

You're shifting the goal posts. Your post said nothing about compulsory or voluntary.
And it's actually in grades 7 and 8 usually.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#72  Postby Bud's Brain » May 22, 2015 4:12 pm

I've been put off till after the half term holidays to meet with the school.

The telecon I had today with the RE teacher was worrying. The Ahmadiyya Muslim Association UK actually approached the school and asked to be allowed to speak to the kids. They allow one lecture per grade per year, and Grade 8s are studying Islam. The only other one they have organised so far is for Year 9s - Buddhism.
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#73  Postby Scot Dutchy » May 22, 2015 4:16 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Why waste money on fairy tales? You cant give an overview of any branch of religion so why try. Just refer to religion in a historical context is more than enough.

Public schools here dont even touch on religion outside of history.

The bolded bit is not true Scot.
Many public elementary schools offer Comparative Religion, often next to Humanism lessons.


Offer Thomas not compulsory. That is also at primary level grade 1.

You're shifting the goal posts. Your post said nothing about compulsory or voluntary.
And it's actually in grades 7 and 8 usually.


FFS Thomas. Spijkers op laagwater gaan ze even zoeken. It is not part of the standard curriculum.
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#74  Postby Scot Dutchy » May 22, 2015 4:18 pm

Bud's Brain wrote:I've been put off till after the half term holidays to meet with the school.

The telecon I had today with the RE teacher was worrying. The Ahmadiyya Muslim Association UK actually approached the school and asked to be allowed to speak to the kids. They allow one lecture per grade per year, and Grade 8s are studying Islam. The only other one they have organised so far is for Year 9s - Buddhism.


This whole idea of external speakers speaking to young kids is just a minefield. It should be stopped.
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#75  Postby HughMcB » May 22, 2015 4:30 pm

Bud's Brain wrote:I've been put off till after the half term holidays to meet with the school.

The telecon I had today with the RE teacher was worrying. The Ahmadiyya Muslim Association UK actually approached the school and asked to be allowed to speak to the kids. They allow one lecture per grade per year, and Grade 8s are studying Islam. The only other one they have organised so far is for Year 9s - Buddhism.

I'm still not sure what the problem is. If this is taught with a bit of context, then there should be no issue.

The onus is on the school to provide that context.
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#76  Postby Bud's Brain » May 22, 2015 5:09 pm

HughMcB wrote:
Bud's Brain wrote:I've been put off till after the half term holidays to meet with the school.

The telecon I had today with the RE teacher was worrying. The Ahmadiyya Muslim Association UK actually approached the school and asked to be allowed to speak to the kids. They allow one lecture per grade per year, and Grade 8s are studying Islam. The only other one they have organised so far is for Year 9s - Buddhism.

I'm still not sure what the problem is. If this is taught with a bit of context, then there should be no issue.

The onus is on the school to provide that context.


I'm not an educator, but I do monitor closely what my daughter is taught.

Integral calculus in Year 8 has me confused. Lectures about Islam that misrepresent the majority belief system of this religion worries me. I don't want my child to walk away from the lecture thinking that Islam is bunny hugging, blue birds of happiness and rainbows. We all know that this is not the case. I don't give a damn what this particular warm and fluffy sect believes. I don't want anyone to think / know anything other than they're an aberration and that the reality is scary and dangerous and living next door.

Edit: Jesus H Christ - I sound like a redneck. I need a weapon or two.
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#77  Postby Thomas Eshuis » May 22, 2015 5:28 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
The bolded bit is not true Scot.
Many public elementary schools offer Comparative Religion, often next to Humanism lessons.


Offer Thomas not compulsory. That is also at primary level grade 1.

You're shifting the goal posts. Your post said nothing about compulsory or voluntary.
And it's actually in grades 7 and 8 usually.


FFS Thomas. Spijkers op laagwater gaan ze even zoeken. It is not part of the standard curriculum.

In many schools you have to take either humanism or CR.
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#78  Postby HughMcB » May 22, 2015 5:38 pm

Bud's Brain wrote:Integral calculus in Year 8 has me confused. Lectures about Islam that misrepresent the majority belief system of this religion worries me. I don't want my child to walk away from the lecture thinking that Islam is bunny hugging, blue birds of happiness and rainbows. We all know that this is not the case. I don't give a damn what this particular warm and fluffy sect believes. I don't want anyone to think / know anything other than they're an aberration and that the reality is scary and dangerous and living next door.

I'm still not understanding this.

What exactly is the problem...
1) what is written in the holy texts?
2) what is taught from the holy texts? or
3) what is practiced from the holy texts?

Because your above post doesn't convey the issue very well. I thought this was a simple matter of "hey now, this kind of misrepresents what many Muslims think, or at the least are being taught" but now I'm getting a distinct "they're living next door! they must be stopped at all costs!" vibe.

And as far as this goes;
Bud's Brain wrote:I don't want anyone to think / know anything other than they're an aberration

Are you painting all theists with the same brush, if not, why not?

Bud's Brain wrote:Jesus H Christ - I sound like a redneck.

Agreed.
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#79  Postby Bud's Brain » May 22, 2015 6:34 pm

@hugh
I didn't explain well, and it all sort of vomited up. Let me try get this right:
The OP is about my alarm that this sect was allowed to address kids with a form of Islam that is not representative of mainstream Islam. My concern is that the school did not inform the children of this nor has there been any additional information about mainstream Islam. Specifically, the Islam they were introduced to is a very fuzzy, gentle version that is not even on the same spectrum as average and extremist practitioners.

I would not be nearly as high up on my horse if lectures from 'normal' muslims were planned. Ideally, an ISIS twit would be perfect. I do think that our children need to be educated about the risks inherent in religion and specifically in Islam.

I'm still not understanding this.

What exactly is the problem...
1) what is written in the holy texts?
2) what is taught from the holy texts? or
3) what is practiced from the holy texts?

Because your above post doesn't convey the issue very well. I thought this was a simple matter of "hey now, this kind of misrepresents what many Muslims think, or at the least are being taught" but now I'm getting a distinct "they're living next door! they must be stopped at all costs!" vibe.


I think the simple is answer to 1, 2 and 3 is Yes, I have a problem with 1, 2 and 3, although that's not a reaction to the OP.
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Re: Grade 8 Guest speaker on Islam

#80  Postby Scot Dutchy » May 23, 2015 2:11 pm

I agree about the islam bit but it is an exact example of what is wrong allowing any speaker from a sect to speak to kids. It is misinformation because it is impossible to give all sides of the story. Which is why it should never happen.
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