help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

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help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#1  Postby cavarka9 » Jan 27, 2015 1:53 am

My young cousin has developed interest in becoming a christian, he wants to marry a christian blonde women in usa and settle there. I think he is just a sociopath of some order, he sees christianity on the top, rich and pretty(white) and wants all of that.

Over many months I could deconstruct his thesis of blacks being bad and finally got rid of his racism and his rhetoric anti Indian nationalism but on the issue of religion i just dont know what to do, he said he doesnt believe in god when i revealed to him that religion was all bullshit. I did so as his religiosity was going too far and was affecting his studies, i am tutoring him .

But its come back to him and i am caught, i want to be a liberal person because my uncle converted to Christianity and i dont bother with that, and i just dont know what else to do, to be a liberal or not, i just dont know what to do. But I see a bigotry in him that it is the best and everything else is wrong, "jesus ressurected and hence is powerful than others", christianity is the best.
his reasons are silly too, hindu temples are dirty, churches are neat. His got into trouble for various kinds of anti- indian slogans in school. keeps saying me that USA is the best, UK is the best. etc etc.
He picked his racism from youtube videos on the net through one of his friend. I helped deconstruct his beliefs in hinduism from couple of yrs back by just making him question a bit. I just had it with his bigotry, his racism, i just think he has sociopathic personality. He is selfish, manipulative believes in using people. his parents have been inattentive, corporal punishments are common here in India and is seen as fine, i myself have been harsh to him physically over often and have asked forgiveness and promise to not do it for past 2 yrs, i however did break it twice, once when he smilingly told me of hitting a friend knowingly full well that he would not hit back which made me very angry at an instant, another when he defended racism. I no longer enjoy his company, he is 14 yr old, i want nothing to do with him any longer, he wishes me to help him fullfill his goals.
I dont think he will turn into a good human being. his personality is to be socially dominant and rich. I have tried to explain to him numerous times that poverty is the reason for most of the problems in the world and great many other things, got him to recognize that saying somethings might be socially unacceptable "like India is worst,USA is best" in his school etc. Got him to recognize that color should not be seen to connect. He seems incapable of understanding that saying some things to others hurt them, i had to clarify with them. Couple of days back i was telling about angulimala, a story from buddha , while doing so, I told him that angulimala used to cut off fingers and made garland of them, he took a moment and replied that "it is wrong because it hurts others?". I was baffled, flabbergasted . Any way, i got rid of his racism, got him to hide his anti national rhetoric, made him to recognize that he can like anything he pleases but is not appropriate to call something bad. It seems, he is learning basic moral math from me, while learning math . I had such dreams to help him achieve all his dreams as i could not for lack of guidance from my parents,but its crushed. Now when i look at him, i have to ask myself, is it moral to help him any longer? . I just want to help him this term and be done with it. The way i see him, he has no sense of obligation for the community that helped him, and is fine to leave it all for a more dominant one which might offer him more. Actually, i had to temper it down from having him express his wish to bring down india or destroy it and other such of nonsense. I dont have much sense of nationalism but do have a sense of responsibility, that is how i interpret my sense of nationalism so have no problem with saying such stuff, but his teachers, friends in school do and has got him into trouble with his friends and teachers, got send to a counselor. An anti social behavior. He did visit usa couple of yrs ago as a kid and hence has seemed to have liked it, he makes it a point that parents hitting is unaccepted in US, and i agree with him. But he finds it difficult to believe there are white parents who do this as well even if small,an unwillingness to believe it. explained to him about money,poverty and how rules are not properly followed in India etc. He has been such a disappointment. Its clear to me that I dont want to help him anymore. I dont think he will be a good person, he has a fair complexion skin and behaved in a racist manner towards his father, and to my another uncle. Hates his father probably for beatings received. Father is not very smart person but is considerate, is religious and doesnt approve of this Christianity business, considering that his sister did have an issue with it, he in his childhood was also invited to church etc . But the kid has no sense of obligation to either his father, religion, country or even to race.
I have a sociopath ward under me, i could never imagine myself saying many of these as a 14 yr old, he has very poor maturity. I am helping him in math and science but i believe, even if i can make him excellent at them, i have no hope of making him a good human being. Is it then moral for me to help him just because he is my family?. He tells me that he shall repay me with money?. I said i need no such help.
I got his racism break down to mere racist fetish of having to marry a white woman, a christian and become one, may be an evangelist kind someday. I got him to recognize that certain things like mocking people for their skin color is not right. Now that i reflect on the many do's and dont's and why's and how's i said to him so far, i dont think i need to have done this much work on most 14 yr olds and certainly not on myself of same age. I think maybe i am teaching him to hide his true reasons for his anti social behavior.
Am i going crazy? Is this some kiddy stuff which he will just grow out of?. he was the most naughtiest kid i saw, i thought he shall grow out of it, and he did but to something pretty sick. been tutoring for over 4 months now. I had it enough I think, should i be overly concerned about him or just leave him to it and ask his parents to take him to psychiatrist or something.
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#2  Postby Ironclad » Jan 27, 2015 2:07 am

Sorry, you think he is a racist because you believe he has a ''fetish for white women''? And/or because he isn't as interested in Indian women as he might?
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#3  Postby cavarka9 » Jan 27, 2015 2:34 am

no, that is what i reduced it to by deconstructing his attitude of ascribing negative values to blacks and others. He thought/thinks he is better because he's got a fair complexion compared to to other indians. I have done quite a lot of work on him for many months now. so I reduced it a bit, i questioned him on many things, i said barrack obama is in india and he is black, to which he had a negative view, then i said many whites voted him in power and then he had a positive opinion of him. so, more like i only helped him hide it, or reduced his rasicm to a fetish. But as i said, it seems to me, i could be wrong, hope to be wrong in truth, that to him, or his brain, goodness is to be socially dominant.
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#4  Postby Onyx8 » Jan 27, 2015 3:03 am

Sounds frustrating my friend, but remember he is 14 years old. This is a time of great turmoil when different parts of the brain are developing and many are still very undeveloped.

Try to have patience and perhaps more fun less overt teaching?

Best wishes anyhow.
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#5  Postby Matt_B » Jan 27, 2015 3:22 am

See if you can arrange for him to hang out with some genuine white American Christian bigots sometime. That ought to cure him.
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#6  Postby cavarka9 » Jan 27, 2015 4:29 am

Onyx8 wrote:Sounds frustrating my friend, but remember he is 14 years old. This is a time of great turmoil when different parts of the brain are developing and many are still very undeveloped.

Try to have patience and perhaps more fun less overt teaching?

Best wishes anyhow.



last week i was wondering whether it is moral to help him, now i just dont want to, the manner he has spoken to me is just unbelievable, i perhaps am myself to blame in part for this by putting in seeds of doubt on his belief of hinduism. I thought i was trying to help him think rationally, apparently that was not true. If I had someone to help me like this kid does now, i probably would have been doin freakin well. I can help him probably to become really good in math and science, his math is not great inspite of help, more work is there to be done but his physics is better than i was at his age,i taught him a chapter from next academic semester already(trignometry) so that i can skip this grade and teach him physics from high school.help him programming etc , he could do real good with my help and perhaps explains his confidence in me, but i dont want to any longer, talk yesterday with him has disillusioned me, could never have imagined that 14 yr old cousin of mine would turn out this way. I dont see much hope in extraordinary transformation from here to be honest. He finds my being upset with his bigotry as sign of my bigotry and it is making me question myself, are there layers of lingering tribalism in me, is that the case, how do i square it with my uncle who is sweet and helpful to me and my family and i want to be liberal to him.
Its screwing me up, am i not helping him for the right reasons, are there any right reasons to not help a 14yr old boy with these thoughts. If i do help him, and he turns out to be a sociopath then what?. If i dont and he turns out fine( i dont know how) its wrong. I just dont know what to do. Is it fair to not help him and wash off my hands now. or is it unethical considering he is still young. its just too weird to be true but is true. It sucks to be here.
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#7  Postby trogs » Jan 27, 2015 8:57 am

How old are you yourself?
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#8  Postby chairman bill » Jan 27, 2015 9:28 am

He's a teenager. All teenagers should be drowned at birth. Being obnoxious is what so many do best. Hopefully he'll grow out of it.
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#9  Postby cavarka9 » Jan 27, 2015 9:55 am

trogs wrote:How old are you yourself?

under 30 above 26
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#10  Postby Sendraks » Jan 27, 2015 11:03 am

cavarka9 wrote:last week i was wondering whether it is moral to help him, now i just dont want to, the manner he has spoken to me is just unbelievable.


He's 14! Saying stupid stuff is what 14 year olds do. He's barely stopped being a foetus and is, in the manner of all teenage post-foetuses, convinced he knows it all and is trying to assert and define himself.

As has already been suggested, less overt teaching and overall less pressure on him. The more you push, the harder he will push back. That's teenage rebellion in its most classic form.

I also support the suggestion of introducing him to some genuine white American Christian bigots. Shock therapy, but it might be the wake up call he needs.
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#11  Postby cavarka9 » Jan 27, 2015 2:43 pm

Sendraks wrote:
cavarka9 wrote:last week i was wondering whether it is moral to help him, now i just dont want to, the manner he has spoken to me is just unbelievable.


He's 14! Saying stupid stuff is what 14 year olds do. He's barely stopped being a foetus and is, in the manner of all teenage post-foetuses, convinced he knows it all and is trying to assert and define himself.

As has already been suggested, less overt teaching and overall less pressure on him. The more you push, the harder he will push back. That's teenage rebellion in its most classic form.

I also support the suggestion of introducing him to some genuine white American Christian bigots. Shock therapy, but it might be the wake up call he needs.


but compared to my experience as a 14 yr old, this is just unbelievable, i consciously thought of color of people for about few seconds as 11 yr old and rejected it. I delivered shock therapy by any standards in most part of the world and certainly in my country by introducing atheism and he agreed to it and it did work for 2 months but he still wanted to marry white woman and settle in USA, but he has since reasoned himself out of it and wants religion back too, christianity is a part of his idyllic dream of living at the top . Its about his ideal, his ambition, he wants to be aligned with the most socially dominant group and diss the less privileged ones and he doesnt mind using even moral reasons to justify his choice even if morality itself undermines such a thesis.(the lady should not be a racist to marry him, i mentioned this too) His thinking is that of a child who believes in choosing game characters in video games. That is all it is, choosing strongest character and winner takes all. truth is not important to him, he just wants to be with the winners. Otherwise if morality must be an issue buddha should compel him ,it doesnt. pretty much suggested that if you believe in christianity you must believe every one else including your parents are going to hell, pretty much what jesus says himself, he got upset and sees that as my bigotry.I said to him shall I get him bible, he said yes but I shall still be a christian. so I asked him to drop the bigotry bit, maybe it was useful. But I see that I am pruning the excesses of his ambitions, his need to diss the less privileged bit, not the ambition in itself. which is not entirely immoral, of I can reduce it down to him just being a christian married to a white woman settled in USA, i see nothing intrinsically wrong in that because my uncle has helped us out financially and is settled in usa married to a christian and he himself has converted to christianity,even now and I dont have a problem with that, never had except may be for couple of seconds which is human. I am caught, feel claustrophobic because I dont want to hurt the otherwise liberal hindus,my neighbor christians,family members making their choices.There is a hierarchy of values he associates to people, each with convenient anecdotal justifications.The few christian friends in his class dont engage in physical altercation with him, so he associates positivity, he asked whether my neighbor has hit his children and i answered yes, then its Indians that should be blamed.If I point to the fact that there are white parents who do the same, he is unwilling to believe, he asks for evidence. He says USA, he agrees british have been bad but is asking for USA getting to the top using violence. Its not just about religion/country/family/etc. He has a fetish, a certain ideal and wants it for himself. From many things he said, its clear to me that he wants to belong to the most socially dominant group in the world. And the evidence he values are written word in books,encyclopedias, youtube videos.


I guess i fooled myself into thinking that religion has benign aspects to it, but it seems to me that the really evil parts of religion are its good bits which give it cover to go about doing evil. From my aunt,uncle generation where people make their conversion out of choice even at cost of families strongly disapproving to eventually not being bothered by it in about couple of decades, to now a more openly bigoted form of Christianity spreading exploiting various vulnerabilities inherent in the society and the counter hindu violence and bigotry, a competitive streak supported by the liberal taboo to speak out on it and left liberals keeping mum if not supporting it, politicians not speaking out on it in any manner. Its pretty clear now to me that religion is evil from its very roots, the liberal parts of it are the fruits whose seeds spread greater poison.Sociologists sometimes say truths inadvertently, there is a semitisization of hinduism happening, started many centuries back with Islam, now with aggressive proselytism by Christianity from USA and the lessons are simple, treat your own tribe well and kill others or denounce others, every trick is acceptable. Even if it means appropriating many religious symbols,songs etc etc. Sam harris view of hindus not minding jesus as some incarnation of vishnu is just dead wrong and no longer works. Because bigotry makes such peaceful amalgamation impossible. hindus can bend themselves to many belief systems but the moment religions say that only they have the truth, its end of it. Polytheism/pantheism cannot survive monotheism.

I want to be a nice person, a liberal person, its just that I see creeping competitive zealotry spreading all around and perhaps my family is just caught up in it too. Its also clear to me, that getting rid of religion will not be an end to evil either, it lives on in humanity. I now appreciate the more aggressive atheism, i find it difficult to do it knowing it will upset so many, but I hope people will do it.
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#12  Postby Sendraks » Jan 27, 2015 2:55 pm

cavarka9 wrote:but compared to my experience as a 14 yr old,


Your experience as a 14 year old is largely irrelevant, because it isn't his experience as a 14 year old. Just because you did things a certain way or thought about things a certain way, really has little or no bearing on his behaviour and is also not a compelling body of evidence to use to try and get your cousin to change his mind.

The best you can do is set an example of how you live your life and hope, as the dust of hormones and general nonsense of teenager-dom passes, that your cousin will learn something from that.

He's 14, he has a very one-dimensional, poorly informed, view of the world and how it works. You can explain this to him, but I doubt it will have much impact on his teenage mind, especially if he is already sceptical about your motives for telling him one thing or another.
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#13  Postby cavarka9 » Jan 27, 2015 3:10 pm

Sendraks wrote:
cavarka9 wrote:but compared to my experience as a 14 yr old,


Your experience as a 14 year old is largely irrelevant, because it isn't his experience as a 14 year old. Just because you did things a certain way or thought about things a certain way, really has little or no bearing on his behaviour and is also not a compelling body of evidence to use to try and get your cousin to change his mind.

The best you can do is set an example of how you live your life and hope, as the dust of hormones and general nonsense of teenager-dom passes, that your cousin will learn something from that.

He's 14, he has a very one-dimensional, poorly informed, view of the world and how it works. You can explain this to him, but I doubt it will have much impact on his teenage mind, especially if he is already sceptical about your motives for telling him one thing or another.


that is true, he sees my motivations as the same as that of his fathers, i said to him, i wouldnt mind taking him to church or stuff like that if I was his father, I only got angry when he was willing to believe in the bigotry bit. The two times i did hit him in last two yrs for which i am sorry were things which really offended me and it was so quick there was no time to think. I have since then calmed down even more, nothing he says ever upsets me any more and hence he probably says many such things to me which he probably wouldnt to most. I think I played a part in all of this by making him question religion, nationalism etc, what is good, why , and that one must support the good. Oh its all clear to me now, he's asked this question to me year or two back and I simple mindedly helped him break off from tribal obligation most feel but he's used that in a way which is strange. Its like giving tools to cut out nationalism/religion/family or choosing good irrespective of any social group one is part of and it did cut him of that, but has since come up with choosing the socially dominant group possible.
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#14  Postby Sendraks » Jan 27, 2015 3:41 pm

cavarka9 wrote: Its like giving tools to cut out nationalism/religion/family or choosing good irrespective of any social group one is part of and it did cut him of that, but has since come up with choosing the socially dominant group possible.


So, like a teenager, he's looked at a social group, decided he wants to be part of that group and seems to be operating under the assumption that "this can just happen."

How does he intend to go about achieving this goal?
He's going to need to get money from somewhere, which generally involves either luck or hard work.
He's going to have to find a way to be part of a different culture and adjust to the values of that culture.

You might make some headway about discussing his long term goals and how he intends to go about achieving them. The important thing is to keep asking questions and let him speak, don't criticise or gainsay his answers. Let him do the working out to grasp what lies in from of him. The key follow-up questions for you should always be along the lines of "and what then?" or "and how will you do that?"

Don't press him, if he doesn't have an answer just leave it. Leave a nice empty silence in which he can reflect on what he doesn't know.
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#15  Postby cavarka9 » Jan 27, 2015 3:46 pm

Sendraks wrote:
cavarka9 wrote: Its like giving tools to cut out nationalism/religion/family or choosing good irrespective of any social group one is part of and it did cut him of that, but has since come up with choosing the socially dominant group possible.


So, like a teenager, he's looked at a social group, decided he wants to be part of that group and seems to be operating under the assumption that "this can just happen."

How does he intend to go about achieving this goal?
He's going to need to get money from somewhere, which generally involves either luck or hard work.
He's going to have to find a way to be part of a different culture and adjust to the values of that culture.

You might make some headway about discussing his long term goals and how he intends to go about achieving them. The important thing is to keep asking questions and let him speak, don't criticise or gainsay his answers. Let him do the working out to grasp what lies in from of him. The key follow-up questions for you should always be along the lines of "and what then?" or "and how will you do that?"

Don't press him, if he doesn't have an answer just leave it. Leave a nice empty silence in which he can reflect on what he doesn't know.


Well good thoughts but its not that difficult, we do have family living in USA, he is expecting me to teach him math/science/computers, i told him most of what is required to become successful already, money from family.
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#16  Postby Sendraks » Jan 27, 2015 3:56 pm

Maybe he should spend some time in the USA then? Might help broaden his worldview a little and understand better what his goal entails.
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#17  Postby cavarka9 » Jan 27, 2015 4:00 pm

Sendraks wrote:Maybe he should spend some time in the USA then? Might help broaden his worldview a little and understand better what his goal entails.

perhaps, but he told me, he doesnt want to be connected to his parents, wants to send money back, give money to me for what i do for him. thats his goal, be socially dominant, marry white christian women, become christian, and diss others.
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#18  Postby trogs » Jan 29, 2015 4:09 am

I suspect that hardly anyone here became an atheist by some other atheist family member "preaching" at us.

Time + curiosity/internet let us figure it out for ourselves.

I would suggest that you show him these videos of the atheist Christopher Hitchens demolishing theist Dinesh D'Souza with rational argument. Your cousin is a teenager looking for strong role models to identify with that are in opposition to his old country/family. He will probably plug into the vibe of a rational British guy dominating an irrational Indian Christian guy, and hopefully at least come out deciding to be an atheist, rather than a Christian.
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#19  Postby I'm With Stupid » Jan 29, 2015 4:41 am

I was speaking to a British Indian friend the other day and she said she used to know an Indian who refused to talk to any other Indians and would only hang out with white people. She suggested that it's something to do with self-hatred. I think the Christian thing is a red herring. Christian is just substitute for Western/American. But I don't know what to do about someone who hates their own culture. It might just be a teenager thing, but the person my friend was talking about was an adult. Refused to have any Indian friends on Facebook and everything.
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Re: help! my cousin is becoming a racist christian bigot

#20  Postby trogs » Jan 29, 2015 4:53 am

Many white xenophiles feel that white people are bad, post pics of themselves with their non-white friend on their facebook, put "white people are privileged, I am better than other white people because I say so" videos in their forum signature, etc.

One can assume the attitude that there's something wrong with this. Or one can recognise that it's totally their choice. Maybe they genuinely, legitimately feel this loathing for the ethnic identity of their dad and mom. Maybe that's just 100% ok. So long as they don't force this attitude on others, I don't see any reason to try to "fix" xenophilia, any more than one should try to "fix" gayness, or taste in music*. Maybe it's just how your cousin feels.

* ok, some music is really bad.
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