Just had an incident of bullying

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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#61  Postby jaydot » Nov 25, 2015 10:27 pm

that's the sort of caper my teachers got up to. it works. it enables the miscreants to save face and doesn't get all litigaty and unpleasant.
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#62  Postby kiore » Nov 25, 2015 11:25 pm


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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#63  Postby kiore » Nov 25, 2015 11:28 pm


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To all this is a thread about bullying.. Some of the behaviour in this thread does the posters no credit whatsoever.
I urge you all to think carefully before hitting the submit button.
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#64  Postby Xaihe » Nov 25, 2015 11:30 pm

The guy who admitted to hiding the books might gain social standing with the rest of the class, by saving them from detention through self sacrifice. He will gain even more if he's not the actual person that hid the books. That's something to consider.

What might be better is to take the person who admits guilt outside the classroom for a minute, talk to him and then return to the classroom and there you thank him for his cooperation. Perhaps even telling him that he will get a reward after class (not an actual reward there). Hint that he is your class informant from now on, if you are very sure that he is the actual bully.

Note that I don't have actual teaching experience and you should discuss such ideas with others first.
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#65  Postby quas » Nov 26, 2015 5:25 am

Weaver wrote:It always stuns me that there are people here who support bullying behaviors, and support a return to the tacit approval of bullying by authority figures, despite the number of kids who have killed themselves or others after being bullied.


That's the only way to deal with bullies. You do not reason with them. Back in my high school years, there was this kid that the entire classroom picked on. The teachers were completely at a lost. One of the teachers even asked the bullied victim what's wrong with him, that he becomes such a target. Only thing that eventually stopped the bullying was the discipline master threatening to cane anyone involved. As for the bullies though, last I heard a few of them are now working with the police force. One of them in particular, proudly posted on his facebook that he has been assigned to a special task force that's allowed to stop criminals by "any means necessary".

Sure, we can debate the hypocrisies of using violence and bullying tactics against bullies all day, but at the end of the day, deep inside we all know that there is only one way to stop Ted Bundy, Hitler, ISIS, etc.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem
those who think alike than those who think differently. -Nietzsche
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#66  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Nov 26, 2015 6:22 am

jaydot wrote:one student got the books from the cupboard and handed them over. you then insisted he grass up his mates. not a good move.

Like I said, children might believe in this asinine notion of 'not grassing', but that's the wrong mindset.


jaydot wrote: could you not have said "thank you" and asked the class to cease and desist being childish? you have now escalated this matter to harrass a possibly innocent party and embarrass further the aggrieved student.

Except I know the pupil and he's highly unlikely to be innocent.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#67  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Nov 26, 2015 6:24 am

Strontium Dog wrote:
jaydot wrote:one student got the books from the cupboard and handed them over. you then insisted he grass up his mates. not a good move. could you not have said "thank you" and asked the class to cease and desist being childish? you have now escalated this matter to harrass a possibly innocent party and embarrass further the aggrieved student.


A good move would be to leave the room for 2 minutes with the student who had his books taken and say that when you come back into the room, if the books have not been returned, the entire class is getting detention. This puts pressure on the main culprits then, they won't want to be responsible for getting the entire class a detention, and will make them think twice about repeating such a stunt.

I did that, except for the bit where I taking the victim out of the class for 2 minutes.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#68  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Nov 26, 2015 6:25 am

quas wrote:
Weaver wrote:It always stuns me that there are people here who support bullying behaviors, and support a return to the tacit approval of bullying by authority figures, despite the number of kids who have killed themselves or others after being bullied.


That's the only way to deal with bullies. You do not reason with them. Back in my high school years, there was this kid that the entire classroom picked on. The teachers were completely at a lost. One of the teachers even asked the bullied victim what's wrong with him, that he becomes such a target.

My first year tutor did the exact same thing when me and my friend were bullied the first year of high school.
We had a group discussion, with me, my friend and the main bullies and the tutor asked what we did that made us get bullied.
The bullies told him what was 'wrong' with us and then the tutor had the gall to ask me and my friend if we could not endeavour to become more part of the class/group.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#69  Postby quas » Nov 26, 2015 6:29 am

So were you wearing revealing clothes?
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem
those who think alike than those who think differently. -Nietzsche
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#70  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Nov 26, 2015 6:36 am

quas wrote:So were you wearing revealing clothes?

:?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#71  Postby Fallible » Nov 26, 2015 7:40 am

quas wrote:
Weaver wrote:It always stuns me that there are people here who support bullying behaviors, and support a return to the tacit approval of bullying by authority figures, despite the number of kids who have killed themselves or others after being bullied.


That's the only way to deal with bullies. You do not reason with them. Back in my high school years, there was this kid that the entire classroom picked on. The teachers were completely at a lost. One of the teachers even asked the bullied victim what's wrong with him, that he becomes such a target. Only thing that eventually stopped the bullying was the discipline master threatening to cane anyone involved. As for the bullies though, last I heard a few of them are now working with the police force. One of them in particular, proudly posted on his facebook that he has been assigned to a special task force that's allowed to stop criminals by "any means necessary".

Sure, we can debate the hypocrisies of using violence and bullying tactics against bullies all day, but at the end of the day, deep inside we all know that there is only one way to stop Ted Bundy, Hitler, ISIS, etc.


And a school bully is exactly the same as a serial killer, a Nazi mass murderer and a terrorist group which kills people in especially bizarre and barbaric ways. Ayup.
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#72  Postby Nicko » Nov 26, 2015 10:03 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:My first year tutor did the exact same thing when me and my friend were bullied the first year of high school.
We had a group discussion, with me, my friend and the main bullies and the tutor asked what we did that made us get bullied.
The bullies told him what was 'wrong' with us and then the tutor had the gall to ask me and my friend if we could not endeavour to become more part of the class/group.


Exactly the wrong way to go about it.

If your tutor had found out that - just hypothetically - there was some awful faux pas you and your friend were committing that was triggering the bullying, the appropriate thing to do would have been to tell you when the bullies were not present. The way he did it validated the bullying.

But I'm not sure you are picking up on what the victim here is saying.

When the incident occurred, you say the victim uttered words to the effect that "they" were out to get him.

Yet afterward, he claimed that this was an isolated incident.

This is weird to me, and suggests that he's hiding the extent of what he's going through.

At any rate, an inquisitorial approach at this stage seems like it could be counterproductive. Make sure that the student knows he can talk to you - in confidence - about anything and it won't go further unless he wants it to. Aside from that, a "hands-off, eyes open" approach might be the best you can do for now.
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#73  Postby quas » Nov 26, 2015 10:39 am

Fallible wrote:And a school bully is exactly the same as a serial killer, a Nazi mass murderer and a terrorist group which kills people in especially bizarre and barbaric ways. Ayup.


Psychopaths are humans too; theoretically you can talk them out of doing bad deeds.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem
those who think alike than those who think differently. -Nietzsche
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#74  Postby quas » Nov 26, 2015 10:45 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
quas wrote:So were you wearing revealing clothes?

:?


99.999% of rape is caused by the victim dressing provocatively.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#75  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Nov 26, 2015 10:49 am

quas wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
quas wrote:So were you wearing revealing clothes?

:?


99.999% of rape is caused by the victim dressing provocatively.

Not provicatively, but the bullies felt we didnt dress 'cool' enough and acted weird, ie as nerds.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#76  Postby Made of Stars » Nov 26, 2015 10:50 am

Strontium Dog wrote:
jaydot wrote:one student got the books from the cupboard and handed them over. you then insisted he grass up his mates. not a good move. could you not have said "thank you" and asked the class to cease and desist being childish? you have now escalated this matter to harrass a possibly innocent party and embarrass further the aggrieved student.


A good move would be to leave the room for 2 minutes with the student who had his books taken and say that when you come back into the room, if the books have not been returned, the entire class is getting detention. This puts pressure on the main culprits then, they won't want to be responsible for getting the entire class a detention, and will make them think twice about repeating such a stunt.

That won't work if they think the punishment is unjust. Idealistic young'uns will dig their heels in if they think Thomas is being unreasonable by giving the whole class detention.

I absolutely agree with Thomas' approach in addressing this firmly. It's not 'just hiding books'. It's singling one kid out to be the butt of a joke that the rest of the class is in on. It's ostracisation, and if it continues can lead to isolation, depression, and worse. It wouldn't (or certainly shouldn't) be allowed in the workplace, and shouldn't be tolerated in schools.
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#77  Postby Doubtdispelled » Nov 26, 2015 10:55 am

quas wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
quas wrote:So were you wearing revealing clothes?

:?


99.999% of rape is caused by the victim dressing provocatively.


It's rather sad that I can't help but feel the need to ask, but is this supposed to be a serious comment?

And if it isn't, then what is it doing here?
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#78  Postby Made of Stars » Nov 26, 2015 11:00 am

quas is making a very oblique remark about Thomas being victim-blamed.
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#79  Postby Doubtdispelled » Nov 26, 2015 11:07 am

Made of Stars wrote:quas is making a very oblique remark about Thomas being victim-blamed.

Oh, I see. I guess I just find the subject of bullying too disturbing to see any humour in it, or any place for irony.

My bad, I suppose.
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Re: Just had an incident of bullying

#80  Postby Fallible » Nov 26, 2015 11:23 am

quas wrote:
Fallible wrote:And a school bully is exactly the same as a serial killer, a Nazi mass murderer and a terrorist group which kills people in especially bizarre and barbaric ways. Ayup.


Psychopaths are humans too; theoretically you can talk them out of doing bad deeds.


Hares manage to berate angry elves with onions and their trousers.
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If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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