Limiting screen time ?

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Limiting screen time ?

#1  Postby Macdoc » Jun 01, 2017 7:21 am

This article is more about ludditeism in the medical community than common sense or best practice.

Screens 'not a toy:' Canadian pediatricians promote limits for kids 5 and under
CBC News Posted: Jun 01, 2017 12:01 AM ET Last Updated: Jun 01, 2017 12:01 AM ET


http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/screen-ti ... -1.4140491

Very few doctors engage modern communication ( mine being an exception ) ....and junk opinions like this remind me of anti-TV, anti-video games .....hell there was probably ranting about the evils of reading when Gutenburg changed the world..... :nono:

The digital universe is reality now and too many medical pundits are dinosaurs lumbering about and bellowing when the kids are immersed in the new world. :coffee:
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#2  Postby zoon » Jun 02, 2017 9:03 am

Macdoc wrote:....hell there was probably ranting about the evils of reading when Gutenburg changed the world.....

The classic example is Socrates' disapproval of writing, because people would fail to train their memories and would become forgetful. Quoting from a link here:
In the Phaedrus, written circa 370 BCE, Plato recorded Socrates's discussion of the Egyptian myth of the creation of writing. In the process Socrates faulted writing for weakening the necessity and power of memory, and for allowing the pretense of understanding, rather than true understanding.

From Plato's dialogue Phaedrus 14, 274c-275b:

Socrates: [274c] I heard, then, that at Naucratis, in Egypt, was one of the ancient gods of that country, the one whose sacred bird is called the ibis, and the name of the god himself was Theuth. He it was who invented numbers and arithmetic and geometry and astronomy, also draughts and dice, and, most important of all, letters.

Now the king of all Egypt at that time was the god Thamus, who lived in the great city of the upper region, which the Greeks call the Egyptian Thebes, and they call the god himself Ammon. To him came Theuth to show his inventions, saying that they ought to be imparted to the other Egyptians. But Thamus asked what use there was in each, and as Theuth enumerated their uses, expressed praise or blame, according as he approved or disapproved.

"The story goes that Thamus said many things to Theuth in praise or blame of the various arts, which it would take too long to repeat; but when they came to the letters, “This invention, O king,” said Theuth, “will make the Egyptians wiser and will improve their memories; for it is an elixir of memory and wisdom that I have discovered.” But Thamus replied, “Most ingenious Theuth, one man has the ability to beget arts, but the ability to judge of their usefulness or harmfulness to their users belongs to another; and now you, who are the father of letters, have been led by your affection to ascribe to them a power the opposite of that which they really possess.

"For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. You have invented an elixir not of memory, but of reminding; and you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many things without instruction and will therefore seem to know many things, when they are for the most part ignorant and hard to get along with, since they are not wise, but only appear wise."

There probably is something to be said for not becoming over-reliant on Google.
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#3  Postby tuco » Jun 02, 2017 9:39 am

I do not think so. What "true wisdom" is changes over time. We live in time when knowledge does not equal wisdom as knowledge is readily available. These days, true wisdom relates to ability to filter, sort and comprehend information in context.

However, in general limiting screen time for kids seems sensible. Its like limiting what they eat. Parents have responsibility with regards to their kids activities. Cant let them do only what they want. That goes without saying.
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#4  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 02, 2017 9:54 am

Agree tuco. The child is not the master. Mind you these days plenty are.
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#5  Postby laklak » Jun 04, 2017 3:26 am

Get 'em off Google and onto Pornhub.
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#6  Postby Weaver » Jun 04, 2017 4:33 am

laklak wrote:Get 'em off Google and onto Pornhub.

Cut out the middleman and send them straight to xhamster.
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#7  Postby Macdoc » Jun 04, 2017 5:08 am

Our initial limit had nothing to do with screen time ...only that no computers in the bedrooms ...computers were in home public spaces and were not monitored or restricted in any way.

I think schools have the harder time using computers/ipads for teaching...distraction is inevitable.
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#8  Postby crank » Jun 04, 2017 12:34 pm

There are ways to ensure kids pay attention.
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#9  Postby felltoearth » Jun 04, 2017 11:47 pm

I've always wondered what exactly is meant by "screen time." It's a pretty broad term considering the range of activity one can have with a "screen."
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#10  Postby Weaver » Jun 05, 2017 3:55 am

It means anything that isn't children engaged in good old-fashioned play with the nanny or the au pair.
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#11  Postby Fallible » Jun 05, 2017 7:39 am

Eh. This business that there's a master in the family is pretty flawed in my view. Ain't no master here. I know people think middle class drip with children called Tarquin and India when I talk like this, but I have no desire whatsoever to be the master over my kid. If you raise kids with respect and consistency, and also keep a lid on your own expectations of someone who isn't you and never will be, things seem to go ok. I'm also not concerned about limiting 'screen time'. There's always been something we've been supposed to have stopped children from doing because argh, most kids manage to be absolutely fine. Just make sure they know any dangers and what might be helpful and harmful in general as they go through life.
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#12  Postby jamest » Jun 05, 2017 9:04 pm

I'm old enough to have been around when kids only got about an hour or two screen time, after school, with a choice of about three channels. That's when the kids' programmes were on and we had our dinner, or tea as we called it in Manchester (which is not the case in many other parts of the country). Oh, I remember Saturday mornings being good too for kids' tv, though somehow me and my friends befriended an elderly sofa maker whose decrepit sofa workshop was at the end of our street. It wouldn't happen these days but on Saturday mornings he used to let us trampoline all over his sponge-material or else play snooker on a small table down near the entrance. So we often gave tv the elbow and visited him anyway on a Saturday. Regardless, in my time we were mostly engaged with the world and directly with people, mostly playing outside, mostly active. This was before computers came out of course. So, the obvious point to make is that kids now (generally speaking) aren't nearly as active as kids were back in my day. I think we've yet to see the long-term effects of kids sitting around for a large chunk of the day staring at a screen (not least for their eyesight!), but it seems obvious to me that from a physical perspective there might be significant repercussions for the kids of our time. Of course kids [generally] have better food diets and medical care than we did, in this country at least, so maybe that will balance things out a bit, but I can't help but view a sedentary lifestyle in a negative sense.

That's my primary reason of concern. I don't worry so much (rightly or wrongly) about the weirdos who might try to take advantage of our kids in forums or facebook, etc., probably because my 10 year-old daughter is still immature and doesn't appear to engage in that stuff (I do the occasional check). But mental/psychological health does concern me. I mean, firstly, what are the effects of a sedentary lifestyle upon the physical development of a child's brain? Secondly, what are the psychological effects of being stuck in a small enclosed space for hours at a time, by yourself, just engaged with your phone/laptop/x-box, not engaged with the world or directly with people? I mean, aren't prison cells supposed to be a deterrent, if you get my drift? I don't even understand why an energetic healthy child would choose that kind of social space as their favourite abode, but I suppose many of them wouldn't know any better, having [probably] received a console/phone/ipad for Xmas long before they entered puberty.

This is why, with all due respect to Fallible, I reject her claim that there should be no masters in the house. Kids are neither educated nor experienced enough to know what's right for them. And with that in mind I think that a parent does have a responsibility to steer their kids in the right direction regards limiting their screen time. At least, I believe that if they have the kind of kids who have a tendency to want to be in front of a screen for most of their spare time. My step-daughter who is 15 is like that. I do worry about her and nag her regularly about it. But I guess the jury's still out on the matter.
Last edited by jamest on Jun 05, 2017 9:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#13  Postby tuco » Jun 05, 2017 9:16 pm

felltoearth wrote:I've always wondered what exactly is meant by "screen time." It's a pretty broad term considering the range of activity one can have with a "screen."


This I know exactly. It means time without physical activity.

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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#14  Postby Macdoc » Jun 05, 2017 9:22 pm

Steering and limiting are different issues.
Remarkable they all grow up .... :roll:
Give an enriched environment kids will mix it up.

Depends on where the kids live and what their school provides as well....there is no one path and what works well with one kids won't with ther next ....give them opportunities ....let them find their way ....talk to them. :coffee:
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#15  Postby tuco » Jun 05, 2017 9:25 pm

I've heard city kids are actually less obese than country kids.
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#16  Postby jamest » Jun 05, 2017 9:49 pm

Macdoc wrote:Steering and limiting are different issues.

Not really, as limitation devoid of steering is limitation devoid of excuse, which is bad parenting. The kids need to know why they're being 'punished', and that's where the steering comes in.

Give an enriched environment kids will mix it up.

I don't know what that means in relation to a 15 year-old girl who wants to spend the bulk of her time outside school in an 8 x 6 foot bedroom, by herself. Is that an enriched environment? Does that suffice regards what I should be giving her?

Depends on where the kids live and what their school provides as well....there is no one path and what works well with one kids won't with ther next ....give them opportunities ....let them find their way ....talk to them. :coffee:

Way too vague to be of any value, Sir.
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#17  Postby Weaver » Jun 05, 2017 11:13 pm

tuco wrote:
felltoearth wrote:I've always wondered what exactly is meant by "screen time." It's a pretty broad term considering the range of activity one can have with a "screen."


This I know exactly. It means time without physical activity.
Which is precisely why you so frequently hear people seeing a young child reading a book and lamenting that they have poor parents who give them too much screen time.

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We could have done without.
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#18  Postby felltoearth » Jun 05, 2017 11:22 pm

tuco wrote:
felltoearth wrote:I've always wondered what exactly is meant by "screen time." It's a pretty broad term considering the range of activity one can have with a "screen."


This I know exactly. It means time without physical activity.

You're welcome.

That's not the issue being highlighted in the report.
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#19  Postby tuco » Jun 05, 2017 11:34 pm

Weaver wrote:
tuco wrote:
felltoearth wrote:I've always wondered what exactly is meant by "screen time." It's a pretty broad term considering the range of activity one can have with a "screen."


This I know exactly. It means time without physical activity.
Which is precisely why you so frequently hear people seeing a young child reading a book and lamenting that they have poor parents who give them too much screen time.

You're welcome.

We could have done without.


Would you, we? lol Who else do you speak for but yourself? Got mandate?

felltoearth wrote:
tuco wrote:
felltoearth wrote:I've always wondered what exactly is meant by "screen time." It's a pretty broad term considering the range of activity one can have with a "screen."


This I know exactly. It means time without physical activity.

You're welcome.

That's not the issue being highlighted in the report.


Aha, good point? Does not change a thing about what is exactly meant by "screen time".

In a position statement to physicians released on Thursday, the society said parents often ask about "screen time" — time spent with a screen whether it's a smartphone, TV, tablet, video game, computer, or e-reader.


e-reader OMG!
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Re: Limiting screen time ?

#20  Postby felltoearth » Jun 05, 2017 11:45 pm

It's an even more vague description. Congratulations.
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