tuco wrote:I have my doubts that 10 year old can make independent, informed, elaborate, and responsible decision about such matters, but whatever, it does not bother me either way. So he does not believe in God(s) Santa Claus.

FIFY.

byofrcs wrote:

tuco wrote:I have my doubts that 10 year old can make independent, informed, elaborate, and responsible decision about such matters, but whatever, it does not bother me either way. So he does not believe in God(s).

Well like all of us when we get some evidence of god then we can be "informed etc etc". Meanwhile even a child can see through the tissue of lies and disinformation promoted by theology for the nonsense it is.

It reminds me of a story my English professor friend told me. When he met the 6 year old daughter of a student he started talking to her in that way some adults speak to young kids, in slow simplified English. She looked at him puzzled and said "Why are you talking to me like I'm an idiot?"

For sure, baby's aren't born with ridiculous ideas, like gods, in their heads. Adults put these things in later on. Unfortunately, however, they are also born with a tendency to believe what those who bring them up tell them.

Teach a child to be sceptical and you protect them for life.

If you show me 10 year old who despite being told by her/his parents that God(s) exist is able to think critically, employ reason, logic, skepticism and constructs argument that there is no reason to believe in God(s) and reject belief in God(s), I might change my opinion. Until then, my opinion is that a 10 year old will dis/believe in God(s) according to environment s/he is exposed to.

My 10 year old is a vegetarian. I showed him wiki page on environmental vegetarianism and he agrees.

Look, I understand that your kids are kind of untouchable, that they are the best and smartest and I dunno what in the world, but do not expect me not to express my doubts about their abilities which you probably overestimate. And if he is an atheist because he was not told much of anything else, there is nothing special about it. Everyone is born as atheist as DavidMcC noted. So what?

Ricky Gervais became an atheist at age 8 years! The way he describes it, it was something he reasoned out... even at that tender age...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8gsIuEvEs0[/youtube]

Allegedly.

Most people alive in the world today believe in a god.

I agree that there is a large potential for changes in sophistication but that doesn't exclude a child from understanding the differences and aligning themselves with a particular stance. I was definitely a Christian from a young age despite its instigation being via indoctrination. I sought out differences of theology at young ages to my parents & debated finer points. In contrast my sister under the same indoctrination was still unsure of her faith at the same age. Yes the topics came up often.

Regardless if it was entirely arrived at by reason or such, at least it shows a healthy amount of courage! Especially if he's heard any news about atheists being bullied.

Reeve wrote:Most people alive in the world today believe in a god.

Because..most people alive today are ignorant of basic cosmology and biology. Many of then haven't a clue how old the Earth is, the size of the observable universe nor the speed of light in vacuum, nor knowing what is the lifeform with the largest biomass on this planet.

Not so much people united by a common god but by common ignorance.

byofrcs wrote:

Reeve wrote:Most people alive in the world today believe in a god.

Because..most people alive today are ignorant of basic cosmology and biology. Many of then haven't a clue how old the Earth is, the size of the observable universe nor the speed of light in vacuum, nor knowing what is the lifeform with the largest biomass on this planet.

Not so much people united by a common god but by common ignorance.

Exactly. Which is why it is an achievement that a ten year old is an atheist. Most aren't.

Have to call my sister to congratulate. Never thought of it this way, that she accomplished an achievement by not indoctrinating my niece into believing in God(s).

Mike_L wrote:Ricky Gervais became an atheist at age 8 years! The way he describes it, it was something he reasoned out... even at that tender age...

I was a similar age. Going to church & reading/watching science books/programmes, one made sense and one didn't. I stopped going to church.

tuco wrote:Have to call my sister to congratulate. Never thought of it this way, that she accomplished an achievement by not indoctrinating my niece into believing in God(s).

That's not a misplaced sentiment, depending on where this woman lives. It is going against the vast majority in many places.

The_Metatron wrote:

tuco wrote:Have to call my sister to congratulate. Never thought of it this way, that she accomplished an achievement by not indoctrinating my niece into believing in God(s).

That's not a misplaced sentiment, depending on where this woman lives. It is going against the vast majority in many places.

Yes, that is a good point I keep failing to recognize. She lives in a country where nobody really cares about these matters.

I guess I sort of agree with tuco, at least superficially. My kids (esp my 9 year old son) listen very carefully to every thing my wife and I say. It's like having a little Inquisitor in the house, snooping around, asking questions like, "Why does Mom hate cigarettes so much?" and "Have you ever seen a rated X movie?"

He regularly quizzes me on my views as to the existence of God as well as Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. I have attempted to adopt an agnostic position, simply for the purpose of promoting his thinking for himself, but he sees right through that. He often introduces me to the Mormon missionaries as "my Dad who doesn't believe in God."

Anyway, I just try to move on. Of course I won't leave him alone with any of those guys for one second, since I don't think he needs some weird dudes trying to do magic on him. But I don't put much stock in what he says about religion at this point, because I think it mostly comes down to wanting my approval.

tuco wrote:I have my doubts that 10 year old can make independent, informed, elaborate, and responsible decision about such matters, but whatever, it does not bother me either way. So he does not believe in God(s).

I'd made my decision to be atheist based on an analysis of the problem of evil by age 10. Kids don't become irresponsible until they hit puberty.

I was always an atheist. Did I know it? Was it an informed or 'elaborate' (whatever that's supposed to mean...) position? Probably not. That doesn't materially affect he fact that I never managed to believe in magic. I was probably about 10 when I came across the term and determined that that was the word describing how I thought of this facet of my person, but I never actually believed.

Nothing surprising here, given an open mind and the ability to think. Good stuff, Godless.

Yeah hack, that's pretty much my experience. I always was one, even before I knew what it meant. I don't know what the education system is like in Canada or whether that has anything to do with it, but when I came here to England aged 8 I can't recall even having an idea about what this 'God' thingy was. It was only when I started attending a CofE primary school with religious assemblies and a religious ethos overall that I realised there was this whole big story about it having created the universe and flooding stuff and all that lot. I swear I thought the teachers were just pissing about. Then gradually it dawned - they weren't. Sweet merciful crap, they weren't. They made us say thank you to it for our food, they told us about how it had made the flowers. It was er...interesting.

My daughter, now 12, doesn't believe but has always had the freedom to make up her own mind. She's been more exposed to Christianity than I was, having spent the whole of her school life in the UK, and in a school where the head is a devout Christian. Much like I was after age 8, she is surrounded by children who call themselves 'Christians' - sadly that doesn't appear to have altered in at least some places in the last 30 years. Still, it's heartening to read about other young minds remaining untroubled by this particular affliction.