R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

Discussions for education, teaching & parenting.

Moderators: Blip, The_Metatron

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#21  Postby campermon » Oct 31, 2013 5:01 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:

I always support my assertions. If you ever find an assertion that I make which you believe to be unsupported, alert me to it and I will explain why you are wrong.


:think:

Strontium Dog wrote:Thank goodness schools are only allowed to hire qualified teachers like this one.


What are you trying to say in your quote above?

Perhaps if we know this, posters won't make comments that misrepresent your position.

:thumbup:
Scarlett and Ironclad wrote:Campermon,...a middle aged, middle class, Guardian reading, dad of four, knackered hippy, woolly jumper wearing wino and science teacher.
User avatar
campermon
RS Donator
 
Posts: 17437
Age: 51
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#22  Postby Strontium Dog » Oct 31, 2013 5:05 pm

"Thank goodness" - expression of relief, in this instance sarcastic
"schools" - open prisons for children places where children are educated
"are only allowed to hire qualified teachers like this one" - are only allowed to hire qualified teachers, like this one
Liberal.

STRONTIUM'S LAW: All online discussions about British politics, irrespective of the topic, will eventually turn to the Lib Dem tuition fee pledge
User avatar
Strontium Dog
Banned User
 
Name: Dan
Posts: 13820
Age: 42
Male

Country: UK: Free May 2010-15
England (eng)
Print view this post

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#23  Postby campermon » Oct 31, 2013 5:07 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:"Thank goodness" - expression of relief, in this instance sarcastic
"schools" - open prisons for children places where children are educated
"are only allowed to hire qualified teachers like this one" - are only allowed to hire qualified teachers, like this one


:think:

I still don't get what you mean 'like this one'.

You are relieved that some qualified teachers are like this guy?

:dunno:
Scarlett and Ironclad wrote:Campermon,...a middle aged, middle class, Guardian reading, dad of four, knackered hippy, woolly jumper wearing wino and science teacher.
User avatar
campermon
RS Donator
 
Posts: 17437
Age: 51
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#24  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Oct 31, 2013 5:40 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Strontium Dog wrote:
DaveD wrote:If schools were able to hire unqualified teachers, there would be more like this, not fewer.


Ah, it's unsupported assertion time again. How it fills me with joy.


Ah, it's pot > kettle time again.


Ah, it's Thomas's Fairy Tale Hour again.

:coffee:

Strontium Dog wrote:I always support my assertions. If you ever find an assertion that I make which you believe to be unsupported, alert me to it and I will explain why you are wrong.

Sure you do. After all, you were only ever wrong once innit? :coffee:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 31088
Age: 31
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#25  Postby Strontium Dog » Oct 31, 2013 6:24 pm

campermon wrote:
Strontium Dog wrote:"Thank goodness" - expression of relief, in this instance sarcastic
"schools" - open prisons for children places where children are educated
"are only allowed to hire qualified teachers like this one" - are only allowed to hire qualified teachers, like this one


:think:

I still don't get what you mean 'like this one'.

You are relieved that some qualified teachers are like this guy?

:dunno:


Highlight for clarity.

I must say, nobody else seems to have their jokes and witty asides analysed to this extent. Do I attribute it to envy, provocation or both?
Liberal.

STRONTIUM'S LAW: All online discussions about British politics, irrespective of the topic, will eventually turn to the Lib Dem tuition fee pledge
User avatar
Strontium Dog
Banned User
 
Name: Dan
Posts: 13820
Age: 42
Male

Country: UK: Free May 2010-15
England (eng)
Print view this post

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#26  Postby campermon » Oct 31, 2013 6:41 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
campermon wrote:
Strontium Dog wrote:"Thank goodness" - expression of relief, in this instance sarcastic
"schools" - open prisons for children places where children are educated
"are only allowed to hire qualified teachers like this one" - are only allowed to hire qualified teachers, like this one


:think:

I still don't get what you mean 'like this one'.

You are relieved that some qualified teachers are like this guy?

:dunno:


Highlight for clarity.

I must say, nobody else seems to have their jokes and witty asides analysed to this extent. Do I attribute it to envy, provocation or both?


Ahh! Missed the 'sarcastic' bit. :thumbup:

So, your position is that schools shouldn't have to employ qualified teachers?
Scarlett and Ironclad wrote:Campermon,...a middle aged, middle class, Guardian reading, dad of four, knackered hippy, woolly jumper wearing wino and science teacher.
User avatar
campermon
RS Donator
 
Posts: 17437
Age: 51
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#27  Postby Emmeline » Oct 31, 2013 7:06 pm

The whole point about having qualified teachers is that the during the process, they can develop their skills & prove they can do it without being entirely responsible for the children's/student's education. During the learning/probationary period they are monitored & coached to achieve & retain their Qualified Teacher Status (QTS). Of course there will be a minority who scrape through & qualify but aren't ultimately up to the job but that's true of any profession.

There will also be the the exceptional person who already has the knowledge & skills to teach without any training but they are rare & I suspect that many of them didn't begin their teaching careers as good teachers but rather learnt along the way from others & their own mistakes. This is fine for their later pupils but maybe not so great for the earlier ones.
Emmeline
 
Posts: 10401

Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#28  Postby campermon » Oct 31, 2013 7:19 pm

Emmeline wrote:The whole point about having qualified teachers is that the during the process, they can develop their skills & prove they can do it without being entirely responsible for the children's/student's education. During the learning/probationary period they are monitored & coached to achieve & retain their Qualified Teacher Status (QTS). Of course there will be a minority who scrape through & qualify but aren't ultimately up to the job but that's true of any profession.

There will also be the the exceptional person who already has the knowledge & skills to teach without any training but they are rare & I suspect that many of them didn't begin their teaching careers as good teachers but rather learnt along the way from others & their own mistakes. This is fine for their later pupils but maybe not so great for the earlier ones.


Indeed.
:cheers:
Scarlett and Ironclad wrote:Campermon,...a middle aged, middle class, Guardian reading, dad of four, knackered hippy, woolly jumper wearing wino and science teacher.
User avatar
campermon
RS Donator
 
Posts: 17437
Age: 51
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#29  Postby Strontium Dog » Oct 31, 2013 8:38 pm

campermon wrote:So, your position is that schools shouldn't have to employ qualified teachers?


Correct. If it's good enough for Eton and Harrow...

There is a thread on that already though.
Liberal.

STRONTIUM'S LAW: All online discussions about British politics, irrespective of the topic, will eventually turn to the Lib Dem tuition fee pledge
User avatar
Strontium Dog
Banned User
 
Name: Dan
Posts: 13820
Age: 42
Male

Country: UK: Free May 2010-15
England (eng)
Print view this post

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#30  Postby campermon » Oct 31, 2013 8:48 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
campermon wrote:So, your position is that schools shouldn't have to employ qualified teachers?


Correct. If it's good enough for Eton and Harrow...


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I presume that you have data to back up your assertion that such a model would successfully transfer to publicly funded schools.

:thumbup:
Scarlett and Ironclad wrote:Campermon,...a middle aged, middle class, Guardian reading, dad of four, knackered hippy, woolly jumper wearing wino and science teacher.
User avatar
campermon
RS Donator
 
Posts: 17437
Age: 51
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#31  Postby Beatsong » Oct 31, 2013 9:03 pm

campermon wrote:My guess is that he's had a nervous breakdown of some sort.


Yeah, it reads like something like that. Or just got fed up with the game and the effort to keep holding it together got too much.
User avatar
Beatsong
 
Posts: 7027

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#32  Postby Beatsong » Oct 31, 2013 9:12 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:Thank goodness schools are only allowed to hire qualified teachers like this one.


This seems like a remarkably irrelevant observation unless you believe that qualifications must have nothing short of 100% success in ensuring all on their own the capability of every single entrant to a profession, not just at the time of their entry but magically projected into the future, having the ability to predict the trajectory of their career and how they will react to it. And that if they ever fail to perform this feat, they must be ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS.

Is that your view of aeronautical qualifications, or medical ones?
User avatar
Beatsong
 
Posts: 7027

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#33  Postby campermon » Oct 31, 2013 9:18 pm

Beatsong wrote:
Strontium Dog wrote:Thank goodness schools are only allowed to hire qualified teachers like this one.


This seems like a remarkably irrelevant observation unless you believe that qualifications must have nothing short of 100% success in ensuring all on their own the capability of every single entrant to a profession, not just at the time of their entry but magically projected into the future, having the ability to predict the trajectory of their career and how they will react to it. And that if they ever fail to perform this feat, they must be ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS.

Is that your view of aeronautical qualifications, or medical ones?


:thumbup:

Come on Beatsong! Anyone can teach! :)

I've never had any takers for this offer, but I'll offer it again (in particular to SD - I'm sure I've offered this to him before :ask: ): Anyone is welcome to come to my inner city school and have a crack at teaching. Just PM me.
Scarlett and Ironclad wrote:Campermon,...a middle aged, middle class, Guardian reading, dad of four, knackered hippy, woolly jumper wearing wino and science teacher.
User avatar
campermon
RS Donator
 
Posts: 17437
Age: 51
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#34  Postby Strontium Dog » Oct 31, 2013 10:26 pm

Beatsong wrote:Is that your view of aeronautical qualifications, or medical ones?


You know, of all the trite comparisons that get trotted out in the media in support of mandatory professional teachers, this is the worst. When a pilot fucks up, people die. When a surgeon fucks up, people die. When a teacher fucks up, a kid learns that the Battle of Hastings happened on 15th October 1066 and not 14th October 1066. One of these things is not like the others. See if you can work out which.
Liberal.

STRONTIUM'S LAW: All online discussions about British politics, irrespective of the topic, will eventually turn to the Lib Dem tuition fee pledge
User avatar
Strontium Dog
Banned User
 
Name: Dan
Posts: 13820
Age: 42
Male

Country: UK: Free May 2010-15
England (eng)
Print view this post

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#35  Postby Beatsong » Oct 31, 2013 10:34 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:You know, of all the trite comparisons that get trotted out in the media in support of mandatory professional teachers, this is the worst. When a pilot fucks up, people die. When a surgeon fucks up, people die. When a teacher fucks up, a kid learns that the Battle of Hastings happened on 15th October 1066 and not 14th October 1066. One of these things is not like the others. See if you can work out which.


Oh right. So you do acknowledge the increased risk that accepting unqualified teachers will lead to more of them "fucking up" (although you don't seem to understand that this is not just a question of singular mistakes about historical dates, but rather the entire, global question of how they manage the classroom and their charges' progress throughout their education).

You just don't think it matter because it's "only" teaching.
User avatar
Beatsong
 
Posts: 7027

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#36  Postby Strontium Dog » Oct 31, 2013 10:42 pm

Beatsong wrote:Oh right. So you do acknowledge the increased risk that accepting unqualified teachers will lead to more of them "fucking up"...


No, just pointing out that the risks aren't in the same ballpark. Not even on the same continent.
Liberal.

STRONTIUM'S LAW: All online discussions about British politics, irrespective of the topic, will eventually turn to the Lib Dem tuition fee pledge
User avatar
Strontium Dog
Banned User
 
Name: Dan
Posts: 13820
Age: 42
Male

Country: UK: Free May 2010-15
England (eng)
Print view this post

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#37  Postby Nostalgia » Oct 31, 2013 11:46 pm

I'd argue that for the whole of our society in the long term competent teachers are irrevocably more important that the others.
We are alive, so the universe must be said to be alive. We are its consciousness as well as our own. We rise out of the cosmos and see its mesh of patterns, and it strikes us as beautiful. And that feeling is the most important thing in all the universe.
User avatar
Nostalgia
 
Posts: 9266
Age: 35
Male

Country: Earth
Scotland (ss)
Print view this post

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#38  Postby campermon » Oct 31, 2013 11:50 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
Beatsong wrote:Oh right. So you do acknowledge the increased risk that accepting unqualified teachers will lead to more of them "fucking up"...


No, just pointing out that the risks aren't in the same ballpark. Not even on the same continent.


I notice that you have neglected to produce data to support your previous assertion.

:coffee:
Scarlett and Ironclad wrote:Campermon,...a middle aged, middle class, Guardian reading, dad of four, knackered hippy, woolly jumper wearing wino and science teacher.
User avatar
campermon
RS Donator
 
Posts: 17437
Age: 51
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#39  Postby Strontium Dog » Nov 01, 2013 12:38 am

I didn't assert anything, rather you asked if I had data to show that hiring teachers without formal teaching qualifications would work in state schools. I'm not sure how you expect me to be able to have data of that ilk, as it's the kind of thing which will only be proven successful or otherwise by attempting it. If it doesn't work, then so be it, and we've lost nothing by trying. I would, however, note that even with full educational freedom, the likes of Eton and Harrow still overwhelmingly employ qualified teachers, and I see no reason why this wouldn't be the case in state schools too.
Liberal.

STRONTIUM'S LAW: All online discussions about British politics, irrespective of the topic, will eventually turn to the Lib Dem tuition fee pledge
User avatar
Strontium Dog
Banned User
 
Name: Dan
Posts: 13820
Age: 42
Male

Country: UK: Free May 2010-15
England (eng)
Print view this post

Re: R.E. teacher struck off over pro Hitler remarks

#40  Postby Emmeline » Nov 01, 2013 7:51 am

Strontium Dog wrote:You know, of all the trite comparisons that get trotted out in the media in support of mandatory professional teachers, this is the worst. When a pilot fucks up, people die. When a surgeon fucks up, people die. When a teacher fucks up, a kid learns that the Battle of Hastings happened on 15th October 1066 and not 14th October 1066. One of these things is not like the others. See if you can work out which.


People don't become surgeons & pilots without teachers.

If you think the worst a teacher can do is teach the wrong date in history then you've even less of a clue about education than I thought you had.
Emmeline
 
Posts: 10401

Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Parenting & Education

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest