Spanking

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Re: Spanking

#361  Postby Scarlett » Apr 19, 2010 3:17 pm

Tyrannical wrote:When she climbed on the table, the child was in danger of falling. A child could easily break a bone or get a concussion from that height.

Kids will almost never hurt themselves when throwing tantrums, they will throw themselves down strategigally in order not to do so. I have three kids and have seen alot of tantrums.

Maybe for "normal" children, but I assume that she had serious issues. Maybe just behavioral, maybe also mental. But since the police were called in, she has to be an extreme case.

And who nearly chocked when they saw this picture? I swear it's real and not a photoshop.
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I certainly did not witness any extreme behaviour that could not have been dealt with by removing her from the woman who was only antagonising her and being put in a quiet room
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Re: Spanking

#362  Postby mmmcheezy » Apr 19, 2010 3:20 pm

Jesus, haven't any of these people heard of "time out"??
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Re: Spanking

#363  Postby MoonLit » Apr 19, 2010 3:22 pm

mmmcheezy wrote:Jesus, haven't any of these people heard of "time out"??


No.

Super Nanny should have a word with them. :grin:
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Re: Spanking

#364  Postby Sityl » Apr 19, 2010 3:22 pm

Spanking is psychological hurtful to the child. A parent is supposed to be a nurturing force, not someone who inflicts violent punishment. It's a perfect example of a schizophrenogenic message. "Your daddy/mommy loves you very much but now I'm going to hurt you."

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Re: Spanking

#365  Postby Seth » Apr 19, 2010 3:45 pm

The_Metatron wrote:
Seth wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:Seth,
While you seem able to form a lucid, intelligent, and consistent train of thought on this topic, you must realize (as your typical fundie proselytizer fails to) that you haven't convinced anyone here to agree with you. I have a question about that, with a couple follow-up questions.

Why do you suppose this is (failure to convince others)?

I have no questions about why, but I'm constrained by the FUA from explaining it to you.

And the follow ups:

Do you think it's even possible to change whatever you think caused this dissonance?

Sure, it's possible, but you wouldn't like the methodology I'm afraid.
And finally, do you think you are able to do it?

Almost certainly, at least until the police catch up with me....
I would think at some point, an intelligent man has to pause and reflect on his own position when, among similarly intelligent company, he gets told time and again his position is on shaky footing.

Sojourning among the ideological opposition is one of my favorite pastimes. Since it is the journey, not the destination that's important, it doesn't bother me in the least that you are all wrong. I'm happy to provide you with the truth and reasoned discourse, as a service to humanity.

Yes, thank you. Not what I hoped for, but not unexpected. You have clearly illustrated the futility of continued conversation with you on the topic.


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Re: Spanking

#366  Postby Warren Dew » Apr 19, 2010 4:04 pm

Tyrannical wrote:And who nearly chocked when they saw this picture? I swear it's real and not a photoshop.
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Looks like my daughter when the nurse tries to measure her height or when her mother and I try to change her when she doesn't want to be changed.

Hopefully that kid is old enough to be out of diapers, though.
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Re: Spanking

#367  Postby Mac_Guffin » Apr 19, 2010 4:33 pm

Warren Dew wrote:
Mac_Guffin wrote:What is sadistic is the unwillingness to learn non-violent alternatives or the unwillingness to practice non-violent discipline after learning it.

There are nonviolent alternatives that are abusive where spanking is not. Why is it sadistic to refuse to resort to the abusive alternatives?


How are the alternatives abusive?
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Re: Spanking

#368  Postby Mac_Guffin » Apr 19, 2010 4:35 pm

Tyrannical wrote:
Valden wrote:Lol, spanking could have just made things worse. Also, we don't know her background history either.


How could spanking make things worse than three police officers carrying her out in handcuffs?

As for background, the cop said "Remember me, I'm the one that told your mom told to put handcuffs on you"


She may have started screaming, hitting back, etc. I see this all the time at various places.
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Re: Spanking

#369  Postby Mac_Guffin » Apr 19, 2010 4:41 pm

Seth wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:
Seth wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:Seth,
While you seem able to form a lucid, intelligent, and consistent train of thought on this topic, you must realize (as your typical fundie proselytizer fails to) that you haven't convinced anyone here to agree with you. I have a question about that, with a couple follow-up questions.

Why do you suppose this is (failure to convince others)?

I have no questions about why, but I'm constrained by the FUA from explaining it to you.

And the follow ups:

Do you think it's even possible to change whatever you think caused this dissonance?

Sure, it's possible, but you wouldn't like the methodology I'm afraid.
And finally, do you think you are able to do it?

Almost certainly, at least until the police catch up with me....
I would think at some point, an intelligent man has to pause and reflect on his own position when, among similarly intelligent company, he gets told time and again his position is on shaky footing.

Sojourning among the ideological opposition is one of my favorite pastimes. Since it is the journey, not the destination that's important, it doesn't bother me in the least that you are all wrong. I'm happy to provide you with the truth and reasoned discourse, as a service to humanity.

Yes, thank you. Not what I hoped for, but not unexpected. You have clearly illustrated the futility of continued conversation with you on the topic.


*Sigh* Humor is a lost art in Liberal Land it seems.


Is Sarah Palin liberal? Because I remember her getting upset over a Family Guy episode.

...And tell me, who do you think are the top political satirists? I'll give you a hint; they don't read the Drudge Report.
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Re: Spanking

#370  Postby shh » Apr 20, 2010 1:49 am

Actually, so long as we're not talking beating's when we say spanking, I think time out's are far worse, guilt is a shit motivator, and is much more likely to do long term damage than a slap on the legs.
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Re: Spanking

#371  Postby Mr.Samsa » Apr 20, 2010 2:05 am

Valden wrote:
mmmcheezy wrote:Jesus, haven't any of these people heard of "time out"??


No.

Super Nanny should have a word with them. :grin:


Time outs can be just as ineffective, and even as counterproductive, as spanking. The tricky part is that we have to figure out what is causing the problem behavior to begin with - if the kid is throwing a tantrum to get attention, then spanking them would be ridiculously stupid. Likewise, if the kid is throwing a tantrum because they are overstimulated, or don't want to do their work etc, then sticking them in timeout is also ridiculously stupid. The issue with each case is that you're simply giving the child what they want and making their behavior more likely to occur again.

Whilst spanking does have it's negative effects, there is also a rising misconception which is probably fucking up just as many kids - and that's the myth that children act out because they're "attention seekers" and that "time-out will fix them". (Whilst I wouldn't argue against the efficacy of time-out, the problem is it being applied as a panacea).
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Re: Spanking

#372  Postby mmmcheezy » Apr 20, 2010 2:07 am

This whole thread has perfectly crystallized why I don't want children--because I would have absolutely no idea how to discipline them. I know that spanking is fucked up [or at least I know I couldn't use it "effectively"], but I wouldn't know what else to do.
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Re: Spanking

#373  Postby Mac_Guffin » Apr 20, 2010 2:10 am

I think I need a break from this thread. I try to stay away from it for a while, but my obsessive personality drags me back in. :nono:
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Re: Spanking

#374  Postby mmmcheezy » Apr 20, 2010 2:13 am

Mac_Guffin wrote:I think I need a break from this thread. I try to stay away from it for a while, but my obsessive personality drags me back in. :nono:

I hear that, trust me. There are certain threads it would be healthier for me to stay away from, and then my brain goes "No, just correct that one post!" and then I'm fucked.
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Re: Spanking

#375  Postby Mac_Guffin » Apr 20, 2010 2:22 am

It was probably a mistake to start this thread because it's an emotional subject for me... and emotions and rationality don't usually mix.
I tried to start off calm and sober and I was expecting some arguments for spanking (And if I must say, I responded to the 1st opposing viewpoints pretty well.), but I never would've thought I'd read the type of things I have in the last few pages such as shock collars and the snapping of infants.
That's thrown me off my axis a bit, and I find myself bothered even by the less extreme views.
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Re: Spanking

#376  Postby mmmcheezy » Apr 20, 2010 2:24 am

I find that I'm also [whether I try to remain rational or not] often influenced by who the poster is. It's unfortunate and wrong, but it definitely colors how I react to what people post.
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Re: Spanking

#377  Postby NineOneFour » Apr 20, 2010 2:49 am

Warren Dew wrote:
NineOneFour wrote:Sure. I have.

What, once in 2062 posts? Maybe twice?


Hey dude, guess you need better arguments. :grin:
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Re: Spanking

#378  Postby NineOneFour » Apr 20, 2010 2:53 am

The_Metatron wrote:
Seth wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:Seth,
While you seem able to form a lucid, intelligent, and consistent train of thought on this topic, you must realize (as your typical fundie proselytizer fails to) that you haven't convinced anyone here to agree with you. I have a question about that, with a couple follow-up questions.

Why do you suppose this is (failure to convince others)?

I have no questions about why, but I'm constrained by the FUA from explaining it to you.

And the follow ups:

Do you think it's even possible to change whatever you think caused this dissonance?

Sure, it's possible, but you wouldn't like the methodology I'm afraid.
And finally, do you think you are able to do it?

Almost certainly, at least until the police catch up with me....
I would think at some point, an intelligent man has to pause and reflect on his own position when, among similarly intelligent company, he gets told time and again his position is on shaky footing.

Sojourning among the ideological opposition is one of my favorite pastimes. Since it is the journey, not the destination that's important, it doesn't bother me in the least that you are all wrong. I'm happy to provide you with the truth and reasoned discourse, as a service to humanity.

Yes, thank you. Not what I hoped for, but not unexpected. You have clearly illustrated the futility of continued conversation with you on the topic.


Or any other topic.
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Re: Spanking

#379  Postby shh » Apr 20, 2010 2:58 am

I dunno where all the fuss on this issue comes from, in the sense of people claiming spanking is a good way to do things, I don't see mild spanking as abusive, but I think it's totally unnecessary too, most other parents I know have the same view, and the few who do spank imo, are "forced" to do so only because they didn't deal nip the problem in the bud. My kid's ten, and has never been spanked, and has only been yelled at maybe five times.
I realise there's kids who maybe have built in problems so to speak, and are harder to deal with, but I think they're few and far between, most kids that are brats are so because there's a payoff of some kind. Remove that, and the problem goes away, for the majority. If you "have to" spank your kids it's because you didn't prevent it getting to that stage, no other reason in the vast number of cases.
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Re: Spanking

#380  Postby NineOneFour » Apr 20, 2010 3:13 am

natselrox wrote:Now that we're done with spanking the kids, can we discuss about spanking our wives/girlfriends and then the elderly?

Grandma: "Where's my medicine?"
Me: "It's up there, old hag."
Grandma: "Where's my medicine?"
Me: "Told ya."
Grandma: "Where's my medicine?'
*whack boom whack boom*
Me: "Ah! Bliss!"


Nice one.

Where does physical violence begin and end?

Should we spank the mentally deficient? How about the emotionally deficient? Should employees be spanked at work for getting out of line?

Maybe we could put shock collars on them.
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