Wearing a Hijab to class

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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#61  Postby Ciarin » Mar 13, 2010 2:48 am

The expression of contempt is stupid.

And the reason for removal of headgear is cultural, so why shouldn't exceptions be cultural as well?
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#62  Postby xsmooth_criminalx » Mar 13, 2010 2:55 am

Rollerlocked wrote:No reason for wearing headgear should be privileged over any others. Those with religious or cultural reasons for putting something on their head should not be allowed to do so in any situation where the person who wants to wear a cap for no reason other than expressing loyalty to the Pittsburgh Steelers or Chevrolet would not. One law. One rule. Equal justice. No exception for those adhering to nonsense-based belief systems - or for any other reason.
Well, perhaps one exception. Medical necessity. Nothing else.

This is not to say, however, that people should generally be prohibited from putting things on their heads.

And the "invisible friend" thing isn't intended to be literal. It's intended as an expression of contempt for theism.
"Don't be so danged literal." -Bugs Bunny


Ooh, yeah! I remember there was something on the paper about a medical case:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... chool.html

See, under those circumstances, I could see why wearing a hat to school would be a good option. Otherwise, I'm not having it until I can wear my fedora to school! :naughty:
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#63  Postby Ciarin » Mar 13, 2010 3:08 am

IMO, you should use the cultural/religious exemptions as a reason to lift the idiotic "no headgear" ban altogether rather than whining for people to have no exemptions.
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#64  Postby xsmooth_criminalx » Mar 13, 2010 3:14 am

Ciarin wrote:IMO, you should use the cultural/religious exemptions as a reason to lift the idiotic "no headgear" ban altogether rather than whining for people to have no exemptions.


They probably won't ever lift it altogether, it's safe to say. They may make good exceptions, like the one I suggested, or they may make inane exceptions, like the ones we have been discussing. Moreover, I never said there could be no exceptions. Medical is the only one I'm willing to take. Otherwise, it's hats for all or hats for none who don't really need it.
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#65  Postby Ciarin » Mar 13, 2010 3:18 am

If an exemption can be made for any reason then the ban is asinine.
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#66  Postby xsmooth_criminalx » Mar 13, 2010 3:22 am

Ciarin wrote:If an exemption can be made for any reason then the ban is asinine.


Well, at least we partly agree on something. I would be willing to honour the stupid ban if their only exception to the rule was kids with cancer wearing hats. If they make exceptions based on religion, though, I'm wearing my friggin fedora! I can always say I "worship" the King of Pop. :P
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#67  Postby Ciarin » Mar 13, 2010 3:25 am

The king of pop was a pædophile. And fedoras are stupid.
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#68  Postby xsmooth_criminalx » Mar 13, 2010 3:34 am

Ciarin wrote:The king of pop was a pædophile. And fedoras are stupid.


Now you're just saying inanities. :lol:
The FBI files already proved that he was not a pedophile. Fedoras are the $#!t. Please keep this conversation on topic and try to form complete sentences.

Back to religious faith as being a legitimate/illegitimate reason to lift the hat ban, why do you support it? I already told you why I think it's invalid.
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#69  Postby Rollerlocked » Mar 13, 2010 3:52 am

Ciarin wrote:The expression of contempt is stupid.

And the reason for removal of headgear is cultural, so why shouldn't exceptions be cultural as well?

Theism is stupid.

Exceptions are unequal. Either everyone can wear headgear, or, lacking valid medical reasons, no one can. Anything else is unequal and unjust.
I am not opposed to allowing everyone to wear headgear.
I am opposed to allowing some to wear headgear.
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#70  Postby Ciarin » Mar 13, 2010 4:06 am

Rollerlocked wrote:
Ciarin wrote:The expression of contempt is stupid.

And the reason for removal of headgear is cultural, so why shouldn't exceptions be cultural as well?

Theism is stupid.

Exceptions are unequal. Either everyone can wear headgear, or, lacking valid medical reasons, no one can. Anything else is unequal and unjust.
I am not opposed to allowing everyone to wear headgear.
I am opposed to allowing some to wear headgear.



Either everyone can or no one can. Why give a medical exception?
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#71  Postby Rollerlocked » Mar 13, 2010 10:10 am

Ciarin wrote:
Rollerlocked wrote:
Ciarin wrote:The expression of contempt is stupid.

And the reason for removal of headgear is cultural, so why shouldn't exceptions be cultural as well?

Theism is stupid.

Exceptions are unequal. Either everyone can wear headgear, or, lacking valid medical reasons, no one can. Anything else is unequal and unjust.
I am not opposed to allowing everyone to wear headgear.
I am opposed to allowing some to wear headgear.



Either everyone can or no one can. Why give a medical exception?

Because allowing a medical exception isn't saying that one kind of "I want to" is better or more important than another.
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#72  Postby Ciarin » Mar 13, 2010 3:05 pm

Rollerlocked wrote:
Because allowing a medical exception isn't saying that one kind of "I want to" is better or more important than another.


If you can allow a medical exemption, the ban must not be that crucial.
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#73  Postby Melhael » Mar 14, 2010 1:11 pm

Ciarin wrote:If it's so equal why isn't everyone in the country barred from wearing hats?


I fail to see your point. Is wearing a hat a religious prescript imposed on one gender only to shield them from the lust of the other gender? Is a female individual not wearing a hat regarded as a dirty whore? Clearly there's an obvious difference between fashion accessories and sexist religious headgear... :roll:

If equality is such a problem to some, maybe they would enjoy a stay in a country where such overrated values are not in any way enforced. Those aren't scarce. But in the West, equality is a standard for which we used to fight and die. I'm proud of that and the hijab is an insult to those, who gave their life so that women could be free and live as my equals (which is still a work in progress and that discriminatory piece of cloth is an obstacle to that).

I wish the energy that is put in defending that avatar of sexism was put into the fight for equal rights and opportunities. (Or "were" put? I'm confused... :whistle:)
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#74  Postby Ciarin » Mar 15, 2010 10:06 am

Melhael wrote:
Ciarin wrote:If it's so equal why isn't everyone in the country barred from wearing hats?


I fail to see your point.
Is wearing a hat a religious prescript imposed on one gender only to shield them from the lust of the other gender? Is a female individual not wearing a hat regarded as a dirty whore? Clearly there's an obvious difference between fashion accessories and sexist religious headgear... :roll:

If equality is such a problem to some, maybe they would enjoy a stay in a country where such overrated values are not in any way enforced. Those aren't scarce. But in the West, equality is a standard for which we used to fight and die. I'm proud of that and the hijab is an insult to those, who gave their life so that women could be free and live as my equals (which is still a work in progress and that discriminatory piece of cloth is an obstacle to that).

I wish the energy that is put in defending that avatar of sexism was put into the fight for equal rights and opportunities. (Or "were" put? I'm confused... :whistle:)


You think it's sexist that women are required to wear a hijab in their religion, but this really doesn't have anything to do with banning headgear in school.
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#75  Postby Melhael » Mar 16, 2010 7:27 am

Ciarin wrote:You think it's sexist that women are required to wear a hijab in their religion, but this really doesn't have anything to do with banning headgear in school.


Are you kidding? It has everything to do with it. There are talks about banning all religious signs because officials are too chicken to risk pissing off a few crazies by tell the truth: the real big problem is the hijab. And if school is not the most crucial battleground to defeat sexism, I don't know what is.

If some Muslims want to demean women, at least little girls will be free for 8 hours per day. Thanks to non-sexist schools.
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#76  Postby Ciarin » Mar 16, 2010 7:40 am

but the school headgear ban isn't about any of that, it's about a cultural tradition that says people should take off their hats indoors as a sign of respect.
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#77  Postby cursuswalker » Mar 16, 2010 8:11 am

I have personally dthe Hijab a very large form of hair/alice band: difficult to keep on removing and NOT a hat.

Problem solved.
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#78  Postby Melhael » Mar 16, 2010 10:40 am

Ciarin wrote:but the school headgear ban isn't about any of that, it's about a cultural tradition that says people should take off their hats indoors as a sign of respect.


And they do, don't they? When I was a teenager I wore a baseball cap on the way to school... but I removed it as soon as I arrived in class. So did the other kids. Why would the hijab benefit from a special treatment? That would be discrimination based on religious prescripts... we don't want that in school, do we? We would be giving more rights to Muslim girls... that'd be absurd and unfair.

It's OK to question the cultural rule that says it's a mark of respect to remove a hat indoors or upon meeting someone important. But then if the rule is changed, it is for everyone. However, I don't think there's a lot of social pressure for that change to happen—except from one portion of the population, with a religious agenda.

So, even if sexism is not taken into account, I tend to arrive at the same conclusion.

Here, we're touching at the very essence of the difference between a regular headgear and a religious one: the regular headgear can be removed on demand, without any fuzz. We should be very careful, on the other hand, when someone tells us they can't remove the piece of cloth from their head for magical reasons... especially while in a school.
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#79  Postby Rollerlocked » Mar 16, 2010 11:09 am

Equality is a relatively new cultural tradition. We should enforce and reinforce it at every opportunity, and oppose every effort to dilute or undermine it. Special concessions for religious wants which do not apply to secular wants are precisely such a dilution.
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Re: Wearing a Hijab to class

#80  Postby DavidNewman » Mar 16, 2010 1:37 pm

Ciarin wrote:but the school headgear ban isn't about any of that, it's about a cultural tradition that says people should take off their hats indoors as a sign of respect.


As I said earlier in this topic, you may have missed it and it may not apply to your schools;
but the college I go to ban it for security reasons. Kids have been known to conceal alcohol and weapons under their hats etc.

It's not all about respect, or not anymore at least.
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