Behe demolition by Sean Carroll...

...no, not that one

The accumulation of small heritable changes within populations over time.

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Behe demolition by Sean Carroll...

#1  Postby TopCat » Feb 05, 2018 1:35 pm

I've just bought this for my niece, as she's studying Biochemistry at uni, and Sean Carroll as author caught my eye.

Turns out that it's Sean B Carroll, not Sean M Carroll, the notable cosmologist who, I'm sure, is well-known here.

Anyway, his (unsurprisingly) somewhat caustic review of Michael Behe's "The Edge of Evolution - The Search for the Limits of Darwinism" was in the Wiki article references, so although many here may have seen it already, as it's quite old, I thought I'd offer it nonetheless:

God as Genetic Engineer


“The Lord hath delivered him into mine hands.”

Those are the words that Thomas Huxley, Darwin's confidant and staunchest ally, purportedly murmured to a colleague as he rose to turn Bishop Samuel Wilberforce's own words to his advantage and rebut the bishop's critique of Darwin's theory at their legendary 1860 Oxford debate. They are also the first words that popped into my head as I read Michael J. Behe's The Edge of Evolution: The Search for the Limits of Darwinism. In it, Behe makes a new set of explicit claims about the limits of Darwinian evolution, claims that are so poorly conceived and readily dispatched that he has unwittingly done his critics a great favor in stating them.

... continues.
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Re: Behe demolition by Sean Carroll...

#2  Postby Wortfish » Apr 02, 2018 11:21 pm

That's an old piece of work. Behe has stopped doing ID stuff.
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Re: Behe demolition by Sean Carroll...

#3  Postby Fallible » Apr 02, 2018 11:31 pm

Again, try reading a post before you respond.
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If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
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Re: Behe demolition by Sean Carroll...

#4  Postby Shrunk » Apr 03, 2018 12:53 am

Wortfish wrote:That's an old piece of work. Behe has stopped doing ID stuff.


Really? Could you provide some details?
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Re: Behe demolition by Sean Carroll...

#5  Postby Wortfish » Apr 03, 2018 5:54 pm

Shrunk wrote:
Wortfish wrote:That's an old piece of work. Behe has stopped doing ID stuff.


Really? Could you provide some details?


He's just not active. I haven't found a presentation on ID by him since 2014. Many in the ID community, like Dembski, have left and are doing other things now. Only Stephen Meyer is persisting, but he isn't writing any more books.
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Re: Behe demolition by Sean Carroll...

#6  Postby Animavore » Apr 03, 2018 5:58 pm

Clearly They don't have the conviction to their ideas, if that's the case. I suppose they made a pretty penny at least.
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Re: Behe demolition by Sean Carroll...

#7  Postby Shrunk » Apr 03, 2018 7:45 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Shrunk wrote:
Wortfish wrote:That's an old piece of work. Behe has stopped doing ID stuff.


Really? Could you provide some details?


He's just not active. I haven't found a presentation on ID by him since 2014. Many in the ID community, like Dembski, have left and are doing other things now. Only Stephen Meyer is persisting, but he isn't writing any more books.


The DI released a huge doorstopper of a book last year, criticizing theistic evolution. That seems to be their current favorite target. Behe only provided a blurb, but Meyer wrote a few chapters.

https://evolutionnews.org/2017/11/a-bea ... e-is-here/
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Re: Behe demolition by Sean Carroll...

#8  Postby Wortfish » Sep 29, 2018 3:24 pm

Shrunk wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
Shrunk wrote:
Wortfish wrote:That's an old piece of work. Behe has stopped doing ID stuff.


Really? Could you provide some details?


He's just not active. I haven't found a presentation on ID by him since 2014. Many in the ID community, like Dembski, have left and are doing other things now. Only Stephen Meyer is persisting, but he isn't writing any more books.


The DI released a huge doorstopper of a book last year, criticizing theistic evolution. That seems to be their current favorite target. Behe only provided a blurb, but Meyer wrote a few chapters.

https://evolutionnews.org/2017/11/a-bea ... e-is-here/


"Theistic evolution" used to mean that God actively guided the evolutionary process resulting in the emergence of mankind. However, it now means nothing more than God merely "superintends" but does not intervene in the evolutionary process.
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Re: Behe demolition by Sean Carroll...

#9  Postby theropod » Sep 29, 2018 3:59 pm

In other words impossible to detect any difference between completely natural and divinely supervised evolutionary processes. Shoehorn apologetics.

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Re: Behe demolition by Sean Carroll...

#10  Postby laklak » Sep 29, 2018 4:01 pm

Well, he can't be much of a god if he allowed people to crucify him. I'd have taken their heads.
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Re: Behe demolition by Sean Carroll...

#11  Postby Alan B » Sep 29, 2018 7:59 pm

Ah, but He allowed that so that we could all be, er, saved, or something...
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Re: Behe demolition by Sean Carroll...

#12  Postby Blackadder » Oct 01, 2018 5:05 pm

Wortfish wrote:
"Theistic evolution" used to mean that God actively guided the evolutionary process resulting in the emergence of mankind. However, it now means nothing more than God merely "superintends" but does not intervene in the evolutionary process.



Ah, the God of Pliable Definition.

I prefer Mars, the God of War. No wishy-washy twiddling of the semantic underpants with him. Death and destruction, every time. A proper god.
That credulity should be gross in proportion to the ignorance of the mind that it enslaves, is in strict consistency with the principle of human nature. - Percy Bysshe Shelley
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