Evolution of eukaryotic V-ATPase proton pump

Scientists recreate the ancestral version, reduce the complexity

The accumulation of small heritable changes within populations over time.

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Evolution of eukaryotic V-ATPase proton pump

 
 

Evolution of eukaryotic V-ATPase proton pump

#1  Postby natselrox » Jan 10, 2012 7:35 pm

A time machine that goes back 800 mn yrs! Neat, eh? Irreducible complexity, my arse! :lol:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/va ... 10724.html

Zimmer's blog post discusses it rather well...

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/ ... ld-puzzle/
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Re: Evolution of eukaryotic V-ATPase proton pump

#2  Postby Rumraket » Jan 11, 2012 11:52 am

Extremely interesting. This also seems to mirror the previous findings of the thornton lab, that evolution of complex multiprotein molecular machines usually progresses due to duplication followed by some kind of degenerative mutation, resulting finally in cooptation into a larger structure. And to think that the evolution of increased molecular complexity can happen entirely with duplication and "degeneration" of already existing genetic material. Hahaha, the creationists must be chewing their own lips off with this one. :thumbup:
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Re: Evolution of eukaryotic V-ATPase proton pump

#3  Postby trubble76 » Jan 11, 2012 12:36 pm

Our experiments show that increased complexity in an essential molecular machine evolved because of simple, high-probability evolutionary processes, without the apparent evolution of novel functions. They point to a plausible mechanism for the evolution of complexity in other multi-paralogue protein complexes.


Translation: Kiss my science, bitches!

Cracking stuff!
“I never say that evolution is a fact. Evolution is a theory. It's much more important than a fact, because theories explain things.” Eugenie Scott
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Re: Evolution of eukaryotic V-ATPase proton pump

#4  Postby DavidMcC » Jan 25, 2012 9:18 am

Natselrox, not every evolutionary biologist has a problem with the term, "irrreducible complexity". The problem is with Behe and other creationists, because they refuse to recognise how it can evolve:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity
How "Irreducibly complex" structures form
One way in which "Irreducibly complex" structures could develop is via a process known as scaffolding, wherein a structure gains in complexity via duplication and mutation of parts, then parts are knocked out via mutations, leaving a structure with no direct linear development from the original, basic structure. Other paths by which irreducibly complex structures may form include cooption of parts from other structures. Both of these can be seen in the case of the bacterial flagellum, which includes many parts taken from a secretory pump.


Of course, many people still deride the term itself, because of the reason it was coined by Behe in the first place, in an obviously flawed attempt to show that evolution is impossible. To me, it is just evidence for co-evolution of the parts.
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Re: Evolution of eukaryotic V-ATPase proton pump

#5  Postby natselrox » Jan 25, 2012 4:04 pm

DavidMcC wrote:Natselrox, not every evolutionary biologist has a problem with the term, "irrreducible complexity". The problem is with Behe and other creationists, because they refuse to recognise how it can evolve:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity
How "Irreducibly complex" structures form
One way in which "Irreducibly complex" structures could develop is via a process known as scaffolding, wherein a structure gains in complexity via duplication and mutation of parts, then parts are knocked out via mutations, leaving a structure with no direct linear development from the original, basic structure. Other paths by which irreducibly complex structures may form include cooption of parts from other structures. Both of these can be seen in the case of the bacterial flagellum, which includes many parts taken from a secretory pump.


Of course, many people still deride the term itself, because of the reason it was coined by Behe in the first place, in an obviously flawed attempt to show that evolution is impossible. To me, it is just evidence for co-evolution of the parts.


But of course. I dislike the term for that same reason.
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Re: Evolution of eukaryotic V-ATPase proton pump

 
 

Re: Evolution of eukaryotic V-ATPase proton pump

#6  Postby Calilasseia » Jan 27, 2012 10:11 pm

Of course, the concept wasn't invented by Behe, and pre-dates him by over 60 years. See: Hermann Joseph Müller.
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