The science of human history as written by Herodotus

The accumulation of small heritable changes within populations over time.

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The science of human history as written by Herodotus

#1  Postby RichardPrins » Mar 28, 2010 7:52 am

The science of human history as written by Herodotus (Gene Expression)
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The following passage is from the epilogue of The Real Eve: Modern Man’s Journey Out of Africa by Stephen Oppenheimer:
In this book I have offered a synthesis of genetic and other evidence. Everything points to a single southern exodus from Eritrea to the Yemen, and to all the non-African male and female gene lines having arisen from their respective single out-of Africa founder lines in South Asian (or at least near the southern exist). I regard the genetic logic for this synthesis as a solid foundation, and I have based the rest of my reconstruction of the human diaspora upon it. Obviously, the ‘choice’ of starting point (mine or theirs) determined all the subsequent routes our ancestors and cousins took. Tracing the onward trails is only possible as a result of marked specificity in regional distribution of the genetic branches The geographic clarity of both male and female gene trees is a big departure from the fuzzy inter-regional picture shown by older genetic studies. The degree of segregation of lines into different countries and continents is in itself good evidence that once they got to their chosen new homes, the pioneers generally stayed put, at least until the Last Glacial maximum forced some of them to move. The conservative aspect of our genetic prehistory also provides a patrial explanation for the fact that when we look at a person, we can usually tell, to the continent, where their immediate ancestors came from, and understand differences that some of us still call ‘race.’

Oppenheimer wrote the above in the early aughts, as his book was published in 2003. Much of this is generally in line with the ‘orthodoxy’ of the day. I believe that Oppenheimer’s assertion that there was one southern migration out of Africa by anatomically modern humans has gained some advantage over the alternative model of two routes, northern and southern, over the past ten years (Spencer Wells’ The Journey of Man sketches out the two wave model). Other assertions and assumptions have not stood the test of time. In particular, I would contend that generally the ‘conservative aspect of our genetic prehistory’ can no longer be taken for granted. Specifically, it seems likely now that much occurred after the Ice Age and during the Neolithic.

The false inferences of the early aughts were due to two primary problems. First, they relied heavily on the powerful new techniques of extraction and analysis of uniparental ineages; the male and female direct line of descent. Concretely, mtDNA and the nonrecombintant portion of the Y chromosome. The lack of recombination allows for relatively easy reconstruction of phylogenies assuming a coalescent model. Second, the inferences attempt to make connections between the patterns of variation in modern populations, and what one may infer about the past from those patterns. Obviously constructing a phylogeny, or plotting haplogroup frequencies as a function of geography, is rather straightforward science. But using these results to generate inferences of the past is often more of an art than a science, and implicit assumptions lurk behind the causal chains. Consider for example the utilization of modern Anatolian (i.e., Turkish) genetic variation as a reference for the expansion into Europe of Neolithic farmers from the Near East. This of course presumes that modern Anatolians are a good proxy for ancient Anatolians. There are various suggestive reasons for why this is a plausible assumption, but assemble enough plausible assumptions, and rely on their joint likelihood, and you construct a very rickety machinery of possibility.

In early 2007 I began to have serious doubts about the orthodoxy of genetic conservatism. The primary trigger was the story of the Etruscans. Here is the crux of the issue: there are two models for the origins of the Etruscans, first, that they were the pre-Indo-European autochthons of Italy, or, that they were the migrants from the eastern Mediterranean, in particular Anatolia. The second may seem an outlandish hypothesis, but there were several tendrils of evidence to support it. But perhaps the ’support’ which weighed most against it is that the fact that the Anatolian model has an ancient source, the Greek historian Herodotus. I should perhaps put historian in quotes as well, because Herodotus is often viewed more as a repeater of myths, and derided by some as the ‘father of lies’ (in this he stands in sharp contrast to contemporary perceptions of the ‘modern’ Thucydides, though revisionists have begun to challenge this narrative). In contrast, the model that Etruscans are indigenous to Italy, and that their ‘exotic’ foreign traits were simply acquired through trade and cultural diffusion, dovetailed well with the post-World War II ‘pots not peoples’ paradigm. That cultural change was ubiquitous, while at the same time populations were immobile. It was boring, prosaic, and conservative, and so an ideal null hypothesis.

But here it turns out that Herodotus was right, and archaeologists were wrong. Genetic analysis of modern Tuscans from isolated villages shows that some are surprisingly closely related to extant eastern Mediterranean lineages. Genetic analysis Tuscan cattle showed that they were surprisingly closely related to extant eastern Mediterranean lineages of cattle. Finally, extraction of ancient Etruscan DNA showed that they were closely related to extant eastern Mediterranean lineages. The overlap was often with Anatolia, and combined with fragmentary linguistic and archaeological data, the evidence clearly points to an exogenous origin for the Etruscans. The boring null hypothesis was wrong. After these genetic stories gained prominence I went and reread recent archaeological texts on the Etruscans, and there were many models which showed exactly how Etruscan cultural uniqueness derived back to prehistoric Italy. It seems in hindsight that the prior assumption served as an interpretative filter, and people saw patterns that they were primed to see based on what they ‘knew’ to be the history of prehistoric and early Iron Age Tuscany. (...)
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Re: The science of human history as written by Herodotus

#2  Postby Leonidas » Apr 04, 2010 5:07 pm

"Here is the crux of the issue: there are two models for the origins of the Etruscans, first, that they were the pre-Indo-European autochthons of Italy, or, that they were the migrants from the eastern Mediterranean, in particular Anatolia."


Herodotus is at the start of a long line of historians of what might be termed an all or nothing school. Popular history has pretty well always dealt with origins in this way: Did they all come from somewhere else or are they all indigenous? 19th century theories of the 'lost tribes of Israel' were of this type as were the racist aryan theories. And they were in due course opposed by the nil migration orthodoxy.

But DNA studies and a litte common sense shows that the real world is very different. It is not black and white it is all shades of grey. Sure there was probably a migration to Etruria out of Anatolia, I think the evidence for that is persuasive. But how many people actually squeezed into those Bronze Age boats? Not too many I would say, or more specifically rather fewer than the peasant population of what became Etruria that was already living there.

The reason why local DNA traits persist is not because nobody went anywhere, but because 99% of the population everywhere stayed put working the land. Incoming Romans, Greeks, Huns or whatever only scratched the surface. Politically, historically and sometimes linguistically invasions were very important. Genetically not so much.

Even if there was an Anatolian migration this should not be at all different in the DNA to many other areas of Italy and Sicily and even southern France where we know of Greek settlements from the same general period and from much the same place (western Anatolia) as where Herodotus places the ancestral Etruscans.
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Re: The science of human history as written by Herodotus

#3  Postby Tyrannical » Apr 06, 2010 6:34 am

The reason why local DNA traits persist is not because nobody went anywhere, but because 99% of the population everywhere stayed put working the land. Incoming Romans, Greeks, Huns or whatever only scratched the surface. Politically, historically and sometimes linguistically invasions were very important. Genetically not so much.


And yet, OOA claims that modern humans left Africa and fully replaced all other humans around the globe.
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Re: The science of human history as written by Herodotus

#4  Postby Leonidas » Apr 08, 2010 12:05 am

Tyrannical wrote
And yet, OOA claims that modern humans left Africa and fully replaced all other humans around the globe.


Sorry for not being clear. I was referring to the persistance of a peasant, that is to say agricultural population once it has become established. Swamping and/or replacing a much smaller hunting population by incoming agriculturalists is a completely different matter and has happened in recent human history in the Americas and Australia.

The OOA scenario covers time periods long before the invention of agriculture.
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Re: The science of human history as written by Herodotus

#5  Postby Steviepinhead » Apr 08, 2010 5:27 am

Leonidas:
Swamping and/or replacing a much smaller hunting population by incoming agriculturalists is a completely different matter and has happened in recent human history in the Americas and Australia.

Not to be contrary just to be contrary, but because I think it's an important point, and one obscured by stereotypes and the rewriting of history by the incomers--

But, whatever the case may have been in Australia, the current thinking is that the pre-Columbian Americas harbored a population very much comparable to that of Europe, and large portions of that population were supported by agriculture, agriculture aided by the domestication of plants (potatos, beans, squashes, corn...), by what we would now call "green" practices such as planting complementary species that kept the soil productive, by social organizations competent to the tasks of planning and managing the necessary division of labor, of supporting specialists, and of engineering irrigation systems, residential and administrative quarters of urban scale and density, and other appropriate infrastructure.

This was obviously true with the Incas, the Aztecs, several other polities of Central and Caribbean Mexico, the large-scale chiefdoms of the Middle, South, and east coastal U.S., and has recently been shown to be true of places which we now think of as having been inhabited by scattered groups of hunter-gatherers, such as the Amazon Basin, where the earliest explorers were greeted by large agricultural settlements spread closely along both banks of the mighty river...

New England was also a settled agricultural countryside prior to the arrival of the colonists.

Most of California and the Southwest was settled by agriculturalists. The Northwest Coast, from northern California to Southeast Alaska, was a fishing/sea mammal/woodworking society with substantial villages with large communal houses established along every waterway, which generated excess production, held annual trade fairs at several key locations, and was able to set aside much of the winter season for socializing and secular and religious festivals and ceremonies.

North and South America were not overwhelmed by a larger populace or a more productive agricultural economy. They were devastated by repeated waves of disease for which they had little immunity, their societies were repeatedly turned against one another by rival European powers who used the natives as proxies in conflicts having their origins elsewhere, and were the victims, in not all -- but all too many -- cases, of deliberate genocidal policies and practices.

Conquest is conquest, and their may be contexts in which the exact means matter little, but in the case of the Americas, neither larger numbers (at least initially) nor superior methods of organizing labor or producing foodstuffs were the means, but "Guns, Germs, and Steel." The book of that title by Jared Diamond and the more recent book "1491" will serve as an introduction to the more detailed scholarship for those interested.
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Re: The science of human history as written by Herodotus

#6  Postby Tyrannical » Apr 08, 2010 5:45 am

In the US area of North America, the natives were virtually wiped out. There are very few Indians left, and even fewer that are any where near "pure" blood. The Indians also contributed very little to the European immigrant's gene pool.

Almost completely the opposite happened south of the US. The large majority of "Hispanics" are very heavily influenced by native admixture.
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Re: The science of human history as written by Herodotus

#7  Postby Leonidas » Apr 08, 2010 10:45 am

You make very good points and I have read the Jared Diamond book. Disease played a big role in the Americas as did the density of agricultural settlement. It is also important I think that the settlers coming to America and Australia were often 'land hungry' that is to say they were looking to found farms on what to them was 'unused' land.

Many of the historical migrations in Europe and the Middle East involved peoples who aimed to conquer the land and exploit it by dominating the existing farming people. The Normans for instance did not start digging the the ditches or ploughing themselves and nor did the Arabs who took over Egypt. They became the upper class and lived by taxes and rents paid by the peasants.

Even the vikings, who did settle on the land to a certain extent, were often simply looking to extort wealth (danegeld) from the people already there.
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Re: The science of human history as written by Herodotus

#8  Postby Steviepinhead » Apr 08, 2010 8:28 pm

Tyrannical wrote:In the US area of North America, the natives were virtually wiped out. There are very few Indians left, and even fewer that are any where near "pure" blood. The Indians also contributed very little to the European immigrant's gene pool.

Almost completely the opposite happened south of the US. The large majority of "Hispanics" are very heavily influenced by native admixture.

While consonant with my point about the impact of disease, I think that your first paragraph could convey a slightly-misleading impression about the current state of affairs. Certainly there are many fewer people of native origin than there were at and around the time of first contact, certainly they are, overall, impoverished and underserved by educational, health, and other services, certainly there has been some degree of genetic assimilation of the remaining natives, and certainly there has been a very large loss of traditional culture and language.

Yet there are encouraging signs: while far from a panacea, gambling money is being utilized, in at least some cases, to bolster housing, health services, training, education, wider economic development, and even language preservation/recovery programs (the transfers of resources associated with the native corporations in Alaska are leading to some of the same things).

There are vibrant and renascent arts programs. There are ongoing traditional religious/cultural ceremonies, dance/music traditions, spirit questing, sweat lodging, smoke-housing, and interesting new pan-native religious-cultural expressions which do not conform to old practices, but which are hardly assimilative with the majoritarian culture: pow-wows, indian rodeos, and the peyote religion. There are places where the native communities have a significant place at the table among the stakeholders in major environmental and resource programs. There are huge reservations, such as that of the Navajo where, desite poverty, the language is widely spoken and the population and territory are significant. And while there are certainly places where the native genetic heritage has been swamped by that of the incomers, there are also numerous places -- particularly, but not exclusively, reservations far from urban centers -- where native genetic heritage remains quite strong.

The number of people who claim, i.e., "Cherokee" heritage among the majority society obviously represents an exaggeration of the actual facts. Yet there are parts of the country (including the Old Northwest, Deep South, northern plains states, and the Southwest) where native contributions to the overall heritage are not insignificant.

And, consonant with your second paragraph, the increasing Hispanic immigration and influence in many parts of the U.S., not just the West/Southwest any longer is itself, in part, a resurgence of "native" genes and heritage...
Last edited by Steviepinhead on Apr 08, 2010 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The science of human history as written by Herodotus

#9  Postby Steviepinhead » Apr 08, 2010 8:33 pm

Leonidas wrote:You make very good points and I have read the Jared Diamond book. Disease played a big role in the Americas as did the density of agricultural settlement. It is also important I think that the settlers coming to America and Australia were often 'land hungry' that is to say they were looking to found farms on what to them was 'unused' land.

Many of the historical migrations in Europe and the Middle East involved peoples who aimed to conquer the land and exploit it by dominating the existing farming people. The Normans for instance did not start digging the the ditches or ploughing themselves and nor did the Arabs who took over Egypt. They became the upper class and lived by taxes and rents paid by the peasants.

Even the vikings, who did settle on the land to a certain extent, were often simply looking to extort wealth (danegeld) from the people already there.

I have no reason to disagree with your general point that, in many cases, the conquerors represent a fairly light overlay on top of the genetic and linguistic stock of the "conquered." I just wanted to mark out a partial exception for the Americas... And, of course, in many cases, American real estate was "unused," but still pre-adapted for use by incoming land-hungry agriculturalists, precisely because the disease-reduced prior occupants had been farming that land for centuries or millennia.
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