Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#21  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 15, 2013 2:59 pm

Panderos wrote:I've re-ordered your posts a bit here so my response flows better.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Panderos wrote:Would it bother you if it was the other way round?

Yes. Thought it bothers me more the other way around due to colonial history.

So people can only be saved by one of their own?

Not per se. But when it's presented as that they need someone from a superior culture to save them....

Panderos wrote:No 'the outsider can help too' morals-of-the-story ever?

But this wasn't a 'can help to' story, it was a 'the only one who can' story.

Panderos wrote: Also, we didn't colonise Japan.

Never said we did. Just that as the West we already have a history of thinking ourselves superior to the non-Western world and being necesarry to civilise it.

Panderos wrote:And if anything the whole western, modern influence was shown in a negative light.

Not really. The U.S. and Japanese governments were shown in a negative light.


Panderos wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:If he were knocked unconcious, or maybe one of his relatives or a close friend would be part of the rebellion?...The emperor could have been impressed by one of the staunchest supporters of Westernisation change his mind and give his life for the rebellion

I think you could have done it with a Japanese guy, I just don't think it would have been as good.

I disagree.

Panderos wrote:The cultural shock was important I think. Tom Cruise's character was a man looking for peace, for something he couldn't find in his world, and that allowed him to open his eyes to the Samurai culture. I'm not sure how that would have worked with just a staunch advocate of modernisation.

Because the culture would be the exact opposite of what they desired and reached for, it would be everything they despised.

Panderos wrote:
You really believe a main character always has to survive?

Of course not, but in this case you'd have to have found another way to do the ending. A main character has to survive long enough to tell their story.

Which he can do through actions, not just words.
Dying, sacrificing himself, especially as a foreigner, for a local cause...


Panderos wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Panderos wrote:
A bit?

OK a lot, but it hardly ruins the film.

That, like most things with movies, is a matter of opinion.

True but I don't think even you're suggesting that here.

It didn't ruin the film, no, it did lessen it. It contributed to my ultimate dislike for the film.

Panderos wrote:
Why couldn't he have been a Japanese government official that's all in favor of Westernising Japan and abandoning the silly barbaric superstitions of his ancestors?

Why couldn't it have been about a Roman general who became a slave who became a gladiator who defied an empire? Because that would be a different film.

And that's a different point.
You were saying the film wouldn't be as good.

Panderos wrote:If you'd made enough changes so that The Last Samurai became Gladiator, that'd be a lot of changes, but the film would still be awesome. So when you ask 'why couldn't it have been', well maybe it could be, but then we're talking about something else. I can only judge such an alternative on how I find it. If you can make that film about modernising and leaving behind the barbaric past and it works, then great, but I can't make judgements about a theoretical half-thought out Last Samurai/other film butchered hybrid without seeing it. Furthermore I'm not even sure you'd like it, after all what would the moral of the story be there? 'Listen to those wise white Americans and their modern ways'?

No and I don't get how you came to that conclusion based on what I wrote.
The message would be the same as it is now: that's it not necisarrily prudent to rush forward to modernisation and abandon your own cultural and historical identity.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#22  Postby Panderos » Dec 15, 2013 5:57 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Not per se. But when it's presented as that they need someone from a superior culture to save them....But this wasn't a 'can help to' story, it was a 'the only one who can' story.

How so? All he did was deliver the message that Katsumoto (samurai) had died, along with his sword, there was nothing 'only one who can' about it.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Just that as the West we already have a history of thinking ourselves superior to the non-Western world and being necesarry to civilise it. The U.S. and Japanese governments were shown in a negative light.

The entire film was romaticising the old ways. The whole western, modern thing was shown to be negative, or at least incomplete, particularly from Tom Cruise's POV. The film was in no way depicted a 'superior culture'. It was the opposite. The samurai culture, the non-western culture, was shown in the positive light.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:And that's a different point. You were saying the film wouldn't be as good.

I was saying directly replacing Tom Cruise with a Japanese guy wouldn't have been as good because I think the culture shock was important. A film about superior modern culture would be a different film, which might or might not be good.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:No and I don't get how you came to that conclusion based on what I wrote.

Ah I see, I misunderstood your post, I thought you were saying the film would endorse that guy's views.

Your main objection here seems to be that the white guy saved the Japanese, but it wasn't really Tom Cruise, it was Katsumoto dying. He was the Emperor's old friend, Tom Cruise just delivered the message, and goes through his own story which again is all about endorsing the traditional, foreign culture, not the familiar modern, western one.
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#23  Postby Panderos » Dec 15, 2013 6:47 pm

Anyway, I think I've spent enough time debating The Last Samurai on a thread not even about that film. I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#24  Postby Ironclad » Dec 17, 2013 9:22 pm

What annoyed me was the katana only flamed when held with two hands, it was useless otherwise, but the wakisashi could be used one-handed. So why didn't the idiot just use the smaller sword ffs!
Or make both usable with one hand?
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#25  Postby Ironclad » Dec 17, 2013 9:25 pm

As for the nuke, it was made that way deliberately. Sentiments etc. I read it was modelled on a volcano blast too.
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#26  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 17, 2013 10:19 pm

Ironclad wrote:What annoyed me was the katana only flamed when held with two hands, it was useless otherwise, but the wakisashi could be used one-handed. So why didn't the idiot just use the smaller sword ffs!
Or make both usable with one hand?

It's supposed to emphasize one of the fundamentals of Ken-do, always use 2 hands.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#27  Postby Ironclad » Dec 17, 2013 10:30 pm

The smaller sword flamed one-handed, so why bother with the katana? ..Was what I meant.
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#28  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 17, 2013 10:43 pm

Ironclad wrote:The smaller sword flamed one-handed, so why bother with the katana? ..Was what I meant.

Katana is more familiar..
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#29  Postby talkietoaster » Dec 24, 2013 9:08 am

Talking about knit picking, I was watching Star Trek (2009) last night and I realised the problem that was itching at me. All these black holes they were making and being very close too, that whole mission must have to decades to complete. I thought you get time dilation near black holes?
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#30  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 24, 2013 9:29 am

talkietoaster wrote:Talking about knit picking, I was watching Star Trek (2009) last night and I realised the problem that was itching at me. All these black holes they were making and being very close too, that whole mission must have to decades to complete. I thought you get time dilation near black holes?

What movie? :scratch:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#31  Postby Scar » Dec 24, 2013 9:41 am

I did notice the error bit was too confused by the fact the movie didnt suck to care
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#32  Postby talkietoaster » Jan 03, 2014 9:23 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
talkietoaster wrote:Talking about knit picking, I was watching Star Trek (2009) last night and I realised the problem that was itching at me. All these black holes they were making and being very close too, that whole mission must have to decades to complete. I thought you get time dilation near black holes?

What movie? :scratch:


Star Trek (year movie was released 2009), the modern version of the Captian Kirk crew. There were involved in a lot of Blackholes, so by the Federations perception of time the USS Enterprise took a long time in sorting out the mess, due to my limit knowledge of Time dilation near Blackholes.
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#33  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 03, 2014 9:31 am

talkietoaster wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
talkietoaster wrote:Talking about knit picking, I was watching Star Trek (2009) last night and I realised the problem that was itching at me. All these black holes they were making and being very close too, that whole mission must have to decades to complete. I thought you get time dilation near black holes?

What movie? :scratch:


Star Trek (year movie was released 2009), the modern version of the Captian Kirk crew. There were involved in a lot of Blackholes, so by the Federations perception of time the USS Enterprise took a long time in sorting out the mess, due to my limit knowledge of Time dilation near Blackholes.

Again: what movie? :?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#34  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Jan 03, 2014 9:32 am

I just wished he was hairier.
what a terrible image
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#35  Postby Ironclad » Jan 03, 2014 9:42 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
talkietoaster wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
talkietoaster wrote:Talking about knit picking, I was watching Star Trek (2009) last night and I realised the problem that was itching at me. All these black holes they were making and being very close too, that whole mission must have to decades to complete. I thought you get time dilation near black holes?

What movie? :scratch:


Star Trek (year movie was released 2009), the modern version of the Captian Kirk crew. There were involved in a lot of Blackholes, so by the Federations perception of time the USS Enterprise took a long time in sorting out the mess, due to my limit knowledge of Time dilation near Blackholes.

Again: what movie? :?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(film)
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#36  Postby Ironclad » Jan 03, 2014 9:45 am

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:I just wished he was hairier.


Hairier even than the woodsman look he was sporting at the start! :?

Each to their own I guess.
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#37  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 03, 2014 9:47 am

Ironclad wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
talkietoaster wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
What movie? :scratch:


Star Trek (year movie was released 2009), the modern version of the Captian Kirk crew. There were involved in a lot of Blackholes, so by the Federations perception of time the USS Enterprise took a long time in sorting out the mess, due to my limit knowledge of Time dilation near Blackholes.

Again: what movie? :?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(film)

Somebody needs a sarcasm detector....
That movie doesn't exist.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#38  Postby Ironclad » Jan 03, 2014 10:00 am

No, YOU don't exist! :snooty:
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#39  Postby babel » Jan 14, 2014 4:33 pm

Well, I thought there was a logical error in there.
Wolverine looses his healing ability. Then why can he still use his claws, retract them and his hands are still ok?
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#40  Postby mrjonno » Jun 18, 2014 6:54 pm

I like the X men generally but that film was so dull
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