Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

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Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#1  Postby Rome Existed » Dec 15, 2013 8:13 am

The bomb exploded over the wrong part of the city and at the totally wrong height.

In the movie the B29s look to be flying at a few hundred feet and drop the bomb over the harbour where it explodes with what looks like a ground burst. In reality the bomb detonated at about 500m, after falling for over half a minute, above a waterway.

Just seems like a pointless change.
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#2  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 15, 2013 9:36 am

It's a bit nitpicking imo.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#3  Postby Rome Existed » Dec 15, 2013 9:37 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:It's a bit nitpicking imo.


Duh, nit picking is fun.
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#4  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 15, 2013 9:44 am

I'm not aware of the specifics of the Nagasaki bomb.
I do know that in Hiroshima it did indeed explode in the air, not on the ground.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#5  Postby Keep It Real » Dec 15, 2013 11:04 am

I've avoided watching Wolverine thus far as I predict I'd find almost the entire movie annoying.
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#6  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 15, 2013 11:05 am

Keep It Real wrote:I've avoided watching Wolverine thus far as I predict I'd find almost the entire movie annoying.

The way Japan is portrayed is severly stereotypical and unflattering.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#7  Postby Keep It Real » Dec 15, 2013 11:07 am

Is there also a lot of yawn inducing fight sequences and a flat, grim overtone to proceedings perchance :coffee:
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#8  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 15, 2013 11:08 am

Keep It Real wrote:Is there also a lot of yawn inducing fight sequences and a flat, grim overtone to proceedings perchance :coffee:

That would be par for the course for current Hollywood flicks...
Especially when katana, ninja's and mutants are involved.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#9  Postby Keep It Real » Dec 15, 2013 11:20 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:Is there also a lot of yawn inducing fight sequences and a flat, grim overtone to proceedings perchance :coffee:

That would be par for the course for current Hollywood flicks...
Especially when katana, ninja's and mutants are involved.

I watched The Elephant Man (1980) the other day and found that to be a most involving piece of cinema.

I also watched Thor The Dark World - turned it off half way through :thumbdown:
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#10  Postby Panderos » Dec 15, 2013 12:41 pm

I enjoyed it. I have a feeling it owes a debt to James Clavell's Shogun, but could be wrong.
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#11  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 15, 2013 12:43 pm

Panderos wrote:I enjoyed it. I have a feeling it owes a debt to James Clavell's Shogun, but could be wrong.

It does have a similar theme, just like The Last Samurai :yuk: does.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#12  Postby Panderos » Dec 15, 2013 12:47 pm

Hehe I enjoyed that too. I listen to the soundtrack when reading sometimes.
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#13  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 15, 2013 12:52 pm

Panderos wrote:Hehe I enjoyed that too. I listen to the soundtrack when reading sometimes.

The music is nice, the story is pure U.S. cavalery to the rescue bullshit.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#14  Postby Panderos » Dec 15, 2013 1:00 pm

Hmm that didn't bother me. It's not like the Samurai won.

Nah if there is a legit criticism it's that it was overly romanticising the pre-modern Japanese samurai culture. But so what, Gladiator is probably not an accurate representation of Rome, Braveheart not of Scotland at that time, most Westerns not of the old west, Dances of Wolves not of Native American culture, so on and so forth.
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#15  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 15, 2013 1:05 pm

Panderos wrote:Hmm that didn't bother me. It's not like the Samurai won.

No, just that they needed an Amercian army officer to get the message across and restore balance to the Japanese. :roll:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#16  Postby Panderos » Dec 15, 2013 1:13 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Panderos wrote:Hmm that didn't bother me. It's not like the Samurai won.

No, just that they needed an Amercian army officer to get the message across and restore balance to the Japanese. :roll:

Hmm think you might be reading too much into it. America was not exactly portrayed positively in general. I guess he could have been Japanese instead or died in the final battle but both would have made it a worse film. Surviving those gatling guns was a bit of a stretch I'll grant you.
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#17  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 15, 2013 1:16 pm

Panderos wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Panderos wrote:Hmm that didn't bother me. It's not like the Samurai won.

No, just that they needed an Amercian army officer to get the message across and restore balance to the Japanese. :roll:

Hmm think you might be reading too much into it.

Not really.

Panderos wrote:America was not exactly portrayed positively in general.

The American government into person of the main characters commander, wasn't portrayed positively.
It's still a story about a white Western guy, who has to go in and save the 'other' from destoying itself.

Panderos wrote:I guess he could have been Japanese instead or died in the final battle but both would have made it a worse film.

How so?


Panderos wrote:Surviving those gatling guns was a bit of a stretch I'll grant you.

A bit?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#18  Postby Panderos » Dec 15, 2013 1:41 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:It's still a story about a white Western guy, who has to go in and save the 'other' from destroying itself.

To an extent, but that doesn't really bother me :dunno: Would it bother you if it was the other way round?

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Panderos wrote:I guess he could have been Japanese instead or died in the final battle but both would have made it a worse film.

How so?

Well the film is about not losing your roots, not changing everything when you change, keeping hold of what's important. In order for the end of the film to make sense, when the Emperor realises this, we need to have seen the traditional culture that is being lost, and that is best shown through the eyes of someone who is not familiar with it, who in fact comes from the opposite end, from the modern American culture that is dragging Japan away from it's roots. If he'd been Japanese, the Samurai culture would have been more familiar to him (and also, would the Samurai even take in some random Japanese military guy?). He would have been just another Japanese guy who happened to support the Samurai.
As for dying, well then how do we get the end scene, and also, why even follow this guy throughout the story if he dies there?

A bit?

OK a lot, but it hardly ruins the film.
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#19  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 15, 2013 1:48 pm

Panderos wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:It's still a story about a white Western guy, who has to go in and save the 'other' from destroying itself.

To an extent, but that doesn't really bother me :dunno: Would it bother you if it was the other way round?

Yes. Thought it bothers me more the other way around due to colonial history.

Panderos wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Panderos wrote:I guess he could have been Japanese instead or died in the final battle but both would have made it a worse film.

How so?

Well the film is about not losing your roots, not changing everything when you change, keeping hold of what's important. In order for the end of the film to make sense, when the Emperor realises this, we need to have seen the traditional culture that is being lost, and that is best shown through the eyes of someone who is not familiar with it, who in fact comes from the opposite end, from the modern American culture that is dragging Japan away from it's roots.

Why couldn't he have been a Japanese government official that's all in favor of Westernising Japan and abandoning the silly barbaric superstitions of his ancestors?

Panderos wrote:If he'd been Japanese, the Samurai culture would have been more familiar to him (and also, would the Samurai even take in some random Japanese military guy?).

If he were knocked unconcious, or maybe one of his relatives or a close friend would be part of the rebellion?

Panderos wrote:He would have been just another Japanese guy who happened to support the Samurai.

Or he could be a Japanese government official that's all in favor of Westernising Japan and abandoning the silly barbaric superstitions of his ancestors
Panderos wrote:As for dying, well then how do we get the end scene, and also, why even follow this guy throughout the story if he dies there?

You really believe a main character always has to survive?
The emperor could have been impressed by one of the staunchest supporters of Wesernisation change his mind and give his life for the rebellion.

Panderos wrote:
A bit?

OK a lot, but it hardly ruins the film.

That, like most things with movies, is a matter of opinion.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Did this annoy anyone else in The Wolverine?

#20  Postby Panderos » Dec 15, 2013 2:42 pm

I've re-ordered your posts a bit here so my response flows better.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Panderos wrote:Would it bother you if it was the other way round?

Yes. Thought it bothers me more the other way around due to colonial history.

So people can only be saved by one of their own? No 'the outsider can help too' morals-of-the-story ever? Also, we didn't colonise Japan. And if anything the whole western, modern influence was shown in a negative light.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:If he were knocked unconcious, or maybe one of his relatives or a close friend would be part of the rebellion?...The emperor could have been impressed by one of the staunchest supporters of Westernisation change his mind and give his life for the rebellion

I think you could have done it with a Japanese guy, I just don't think it would have been as good. The cultural shock was important I think. Tom Cruise's character was a man looking for peace, for something he couldn't find in his world, and that allowed him to open his eyes to the Samurai culture. I'm not sure how that would have worked with just a staunch advocate of modernisation.

You really believe a main character always has to survive?

Of course not, but in this case you'd have to have found another way to do the ending. A main character has to survive long enough to tell their story.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Panderos wrote:
A bit?

OK a lot, but it hardly ruins the film.

That, like most things with movies, is a matter of opinion.

True but I don't think even you're suggesting that here.

Why couldn't he have been a Japanese government official that's all in favor of Westernising Japan and abandoning the silly barbaric superstitions of his ancestors?

Why couldn't it have been about a Roman general who became a slave who became a gladiator who defied an empire? Because that would be a different film. If you'd made enough changes so that The Last Samurai became Gladiator, that'd be a lot of changes, but the film would still be awesome. So when you ask 'why couldn't it have been', well maybe it could be, but then we're talking about something else. I can only judge such an alternative on how I find it. If you can make that film about modernising and leaving behind the barbaric past and it works, then great, but I can't make judgements about a theoretical half-thought out Last Samurai/other film butchered hybrid without seeing it. Furthermore I'm not even sure you'd like it, after all what would the moral of the story be there? 'Listen to those wise white Americans and their modern ways'?
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