Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#141  Postby Byron » Apr 19, 2010 10:24 pm

Read elsewhere that "The Victory of the Daleks" was the first ep of the production block filmed. If so, it explains Smith and Gillan's off performances. Both were vastly better in the premier and "The Beast Below".

So was the writing, tho' to be fair to Gatiss, he might have been constrained by the decision to wheel out the new Daleks. Which felt pointless, the "old" (2005) design was fine, and these Daleks look like bloaters, with their bulging midsections. That's where the ep went wrong. Plot shouldn't serve product placement. There were great elements, like the opening 10 mins when you wondered what the Daleks' game was, but it all fell apart when the Technicolor(TM) Wonder Daleks rolled out. The episode felt like a vehicle for a new toy line, although some elements, like the absurd "talk the robot out of going boom" scene, are just bad writing, hangovers from the sloppier moments of the Russell T Davies era.

Still not worried for the new series. If Moffat pulls off the weeping angels/River Song two-parter, all shall be well on track.
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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#142  Postby logical bob » Apr 19, 2010 10:35 pm

I suspect the episode began with the idea of Daleks serving tea. Once that idea lodges, you have to write an episode to put it in.

Byron, you're dead right about the product placement. I presume the merchandise needs more screen time than it got there, so they'll be back.

It might be interesting if the Doctor did cause the cracks, but wouldn't that be even more borrowing from His Dark Materials? There was plenty of that in series two.
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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#143  Postby rJD » Apr 19, 2010 10:57 pm

Gatiss has said that his brief was to do a Daleks in World War II episode. The idea for the brightly coloured Daleks (which will now forever be "power ranger Daleks") came from childhood memories of the Peter Cushing Dr Who films, so probably weren't led by product placement, regardless of how happy they undoubtedly made the marketing department.

I enjoyed it, though it wasn't as good as the first two episodes. They haven't fucked me off yet, which the Russell T Davies episodes used to do all too frequently.
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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#144  Postby Byron » Apr 19, 2010 11:55 pm

rJD wrote:Gatiss has said that his brief was to do a Daleks in World War II episode. The idea for the brightly coloured Daleks (which will now forever be "power ranger Daleks") came from childhood memories of the Peter Cushing Dr Who films, so probably weren't led by product placement, regardless of how happy they undoubtedly made the marketing department.

Where's the Pink Dalek? ;)

Product placement is probably pushing it a bit, but the Moff and Gatiss were clearly hyped up about the new design, and the whole plot seemed to be shaped around creating an in-universe rationale for the change. If they were determined to give us "Pimp My Dalek", they'd have been better off just wheeling them out (although after giving them a can of SlimFast), sticking in a quip about new bodywork, and not mentioning it again. No character commented about the Daleks discovering a love of bling in 2005, after all.

logical bob wrote:
Byron, you're dead right about the product placement. I presume the merchandise needs more screen time than it got there, so they'll be back.

The Daleks always come back! :grin: Just wish they'd find something interesting for them to do when they get there.
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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#145  Postby NineOneFour » Apr 20, 2010 1:38 am

Paul wrote:"Broadsword calling Danny Boy"

In Where Eagles Dare, Broadsword was the call sign of the Admiral at MI6, Danny Boy was the call sign for the Richard Burton character.

:thumbup:
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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#146  Postby NineOneFour » Apr 20, 2010 1:38 am

Ash wrote:^^ Oooh, I didn't catch that!

I've been noticing the cracks in the universe that come up in every episode though! I wonder where they're going with that.


and Amy doesn't remember the Daleks...
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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#147  Postby Nixon » Apr 20, 2010 11:37 am

Paul wrote:"Broadsword calling Danny Boy"

In Where Eagles Dare, Broadsword was the call sign of the Admiral at MI6, Danny Boy was the call sign for the Richard Burton character.


Oh... interesting, and possibly a dual-function reference. As a nerd who has read all the novels (some by Gatiss, interestingly enough) I seem to recall Broadsword mentioned as an organisation, the Whoniverse's WWII precursor to UNIT.

Byron wrote:

So was the writing, tho' to be fair to Gatiss, he might have been constrained by the decision to wheel out the new Daleks. Which felt pointless, the "old" (2005) design was fine, and these Daleks look like bloaters, with their bulging midsections. That's where the ep went wrong. Plot shouldn't serve product placement. There were great elements, like the opening 10 mins when you wondered what the Daleks' game was, but it all fell apart when the Technicolor(TM) Wonder Daleks rolled out. The episode felt like a vehicle for a new toy line, although some elements, like the absurd "talk the robot out of going boom" scene, are just bad writing, hangovers from the sloppier moments of the Russell T Davies era.

Still not worried for the new series. If Moffat pulls off the weeping angels/River Song two-parter, all shall be well on track.


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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#148  Postby CookieJon » Apr 20, 2010 12:32 pm

Byron wrote:So was the writing, tho' to be fair to Gatiss, he might have been constrained by the decision to wheel out the new Daleks. Which felt pointless, the "old" (2005) design was fine, and these Daleks look like bloaters, with their bulging midsections. That's where the ep went wrong. Plot shouldn't serve product placement. There were great elements, like the opening 10 mins when you wondered what the Daleks' game was, but it all fell apart when the Technicolor(TM) Wonder Daleks rolled out. The episode felt like a vehicle for a new toy line, although some elements, like the absurd "talk the robot out of going boom" scene, are just bad writing, hangovers from the sloppier moments of the Russell T Davies era.


Well I disagree! ;) The old design may have been "fine", but the new ones are much better than fine! They're more menacing somehow, and way more interesting! The "technicolor" is a throwback to how the Daleks were originally imagined, and also fits artistically with the "fairy tale" atmosphere that's seems to be the hallmark of Moffat's first series. Being less than impressed in general with Davies' take on Doctor Who, I was happy to see the new Daleks totally obliterate the old ones, signifying this series is going to be something completely new.

Talking the robot out of going boom was "fine", I thought, and as a plot device gave the companion an important role; it was the Doctor's plan, but it took Amy to execute it properly. I was well impressed with the sneaky Daleks acting nice and offering everyone cups of tea, and the mystery of how Bracewell "designed" the Daleks kept me baffled, and was pleasingly resolved They designed him! Genius!

I don't even care to question the physics of the Spitfires in space, since the very idea of "Spitfires in space" is just so cool it had to be done!

Still not worried for the new series. If Moffat pulls off the weeping angels/River Song two-parter, all shall be well on track.


Oooh! I can't wait!! Loving it all so far!
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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#149  Postby Paul » Apr 20, 2010 3:27 pm

Paul wrote:"Broadsword calling Danny Boy"

In Where Eagles Dare, Broadsword was the call sign of the Admiral at MI6, Danny Boy was the call sign for the Richard Burton character.


Oops! I got it the wrong way round. :oops:

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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#150  Postby Sphynxcat » Apr 20, 2010 3:33 pm

I hate the new iDaleks. Though the new colours do lead to some amusing speculations, such as what sort of names these lurid creations will give themselves if they decide to set up a new Cult of Skaro:

This is Dalek Tinky-Winky, this is Dalek Po...
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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#151  Postby Byron » Apr 20, 2010 9:22 pm

CookieJon wrote:
Well I disagree! ;)

Excellent! This place would be plenty boring if we didn't. :D
The old design may have been "fine", but the new ones are much better than fine! They're more menacing somehow, and way more interesting! The "technicolor" is a throwback to how the Daleks were originally imagined, and also fits artistically with the "fairy tale" atmosphere that's seems to be the hallmark of Moffat's first series. Being less than impressed in general with Davies' take on Doctor Who, I was happy to see the new Daleks totally obliterate the old ones, signifying this series is going to be something completely new.

Hmmm, interesting idea about the new Daleks looking more fairy tale (I think they look more lunchbox, but hey ho :smoke: ). Some bits, like the new dome, I like, and I don't mind the size. The bulging waistline, tho', isn't a good look. Just make the sides flow smoothly, already! My biggest problem wasn't the redesign, but that they devoted an episode to explaining it in-universe.

The talking the bomb out of booming would've been fine if they explained it, like Moff did with Amy's unveiling of Prisoner Zero in "The Eleventh Hour". The Spitfires I also loved, but likewise, they could've set it up better with a line of dialogue, instead of making it look like Churchill knocked them up in 10 minutes. Something as simple as filming the characters walking past one, followed Winnie saying later, "Time to roll out the new flying wing," and you're done. To be fair to Gatiss, he did at least mention the gravity bubble gubbins earlier in the episode. Just could've been worked better.

If Moffat pulls the two-parter off (and I expect he will) we should have a couple of classics. :cheers:
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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#152  Postby Nixon » Apr 21, 2010 12:21 pm

Sphynxcat wrote:I hate the new iDaleks. Though the new colours do lead to some amusing speculations, such as what sort of names these lurid creations will give themselves if they decide to set up a new Cult of Skaro:

This is Dalek Tinky-Winky, this is Dalek Po...


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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#153  Postby Sphynxcat » Apr 21, 2010 12:23 pm

^^:lol:
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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#154  Postby Nixon » Apr 21, 2010 12:48 pm

Sphynxcat wrote:^^:lol:


LOL - saw that on one of the Doctor Who forums - took me about half hour to find it in the 40 pages of the 'new look dalek' thread, but it was worth it. :lol:
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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#155  Postby Nebogipfel » Apr 22, 2010 5:19 pm

Byron wrote:

The talking the bomb out of booming would've been fine if they explained it, like Moff did with Amy's unveiling of Prisoner Zero in "The Eleventh Hour".


It had me thinking of the climax of The Quatermass Experiment - stopping a human/alien hybrid from destroying the world by appealing to its human side


The Spitfires I also loved, but likewise, they could've set it up better with a line of dialogue, instead of making it look like Churchill knocked them up in 10 minutes. Something as simple as filming the characters walking past one, followed Winnie saying later, "Time to roll out the new flying wing," and you're done. To be fair to Gatiss, he did at least mention the gravity bubble gubbins earlier in the episode. Just could've been worked better.


I agree, the Spitfires in space is a cool idea, but it does win the Bruce Willis Armageddon Award For Gratuitous Disregard Of The Laws Of Physics. Heck, it wins the Space:1999 Award For Gratuitous Disregard Of The Laws Of Physics.

But the "New Paradigm" Daleks... meh... "iDaleks" indeed. :mrgreen:
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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#156  Postby Ash » Apr 22, 2010 6:15 pm

I just found an article from Steven Moffat about filming the next episodes and the new Doctor.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/tv/2010/04/d ... he-w.shtml

That gif up there is hilarious but terrifying at the same time :lol:
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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#157  Postby Byron » Apr 23, 2010 12:00 am

Nebogipfel wrote:
It had me thinking of the climax of The Quatermass Experiment - stopping a human/alien hybrid from destroying the world by appealing to its human side

Like the comparison. 8-)

If they'd only explained it better, they might have pulled it off. Too busy with the Dalek Band Launch, sadly. :D
I agree, the Spitfires in space is a cool idea, but it does win the Bruce Willis Armageddon Award For Gratuitous Disregard Of The Laws Of Physics. Heck, it wins the Space:1999 Award For Gratuitous Disregard Of The Laws Of Physics.

The laws of physics and Doctor Who enjoy a relationship so strained that divorce lawyers should be called in! Just wish they'd set the Spits up better. (And included some Hawker Hurricanes, the much-underappreciated workhorses of the Battle of Britain.)
But the "New Paradigm" Daleks... meh... "iDaleks" indeed. :mrgreen:

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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#158  Postby Nixon » Apr 23, 2010 10:26 pm

Ash wrote:I just found an article from Steven Moffat about filming the next episodes and the new Doctor.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/tv/2010/04/d ... he-w.shtml

That gif up there is hilarious but terrifying at the same time :lol:


Stan Laurel. Good grief! I've been thinking Tommy Cooper all along but that's spot on. :lol:
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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#159  Postby juːtoʊpiə » Apr 24, 2010 7:02 pm

Thoughts on the weeping angels? I quite liked it, especially the bit where the angel in the video started to move and when they were speaking on the radio to Bob, and he just casually says "they killed me too". Spooky! :shock:

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Re: Doctor Who [SPOILERS]

#160  Postby Sphynxcat » Apr 24, 2010 7:04 pm

Bloody excellent latest episode - gripping, plenty of cool Moffat oddness, and those rotted Weeping Angels are the stuff of nightmares!

And River Song ('Call me Stiffler's Mom, Doctor!') as well! I loved the way she got out of that corner at the beginning of the show.
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