Film ratings for sexism

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Film ratings for sexism

#1  Postby I'm With Stupid » Nov 06, 2013 9:05 pm

Where else?

Sweden is stamping out sexism at the cinema.

We already have ratings to tell us how much sex, violence and profanity a movie contains, but now the Scandinavian county is pioneering a new system to highlight gender bias on film.

Supported by the Swedish Film Institute, the so-called Bechdel Test will only issue an “A Rating” if a movie passes three simple questions:

1 – Are there two or more named female characters in the film?
2 – Do they talk to each other?
3 – Do they talk to each other about something other than a man?

High profile films that fail the test include the ‘Lord of the Rings’ trilogy, the ‘Star Wars’ franchise, and seven of the eight ‘Harry Potter’ movies.


Is this something you'll take into account when you choose a film to watch?

I think it's vaguely a good idea, but it's a bit black and white. From what I remember, Alien would fail this test, for example, despite having a strong female lead, as would Gravity, for only having two main characters.
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#2  Postby Matt_B » Nov 06, 2013 9:42 pm

Actually, the first Alien film passes the Bechdel test because Ripley and Lambert have a brief conversation about the alien; it was the canonical example given in the original comic strip, even.
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#3  Postby Regina » Nov 06, 2013 9:51 pm

I'm With Stupid wrote:Where else?

Sweden is stamping out sexism at the cinema.

We already have ratings to tell us how much sex, violence and profanity a movie contains, but now the Scandinavian county is pioneering a new system to highlight gender bias on film.

Supported by the Swedish Film Institute, the so-called Bechdel Test will only issue an “A Rating” if a movie passes three simple questions:

1 – Are there two or more named female characters in the film?
2 – Do they talk to each other?
3 – Do they talk to each other about something other than a man?

High profile films that fail the test include the ‘Lord of the Rings’ trilogy, the ‘Star Wars’ franchise, and seven of the eight ‘Harry Potter’ movies.


Is this something you'll take into account when you choose a film to watch?

I think it's vaguely a good idea, but it's a bit black and white. From what I remember, Alien would fail this test, for example, despite having a strong female lead, as would Gravity, for only having two main characters.

Helpful. I'd know what to avoid at all costs, namely the films they approve of. Korinthenkacker.
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#4  Postby Pulsar » Nov 06, 2013 10:00 pm

By those standards, Sex & The City must be a fucking masterpiece.

“For some people it has been an eye-opener,” Ellen Tejle, director of Stockholm’s Bio Rio cinema, told the Associated Press

I'm sure it has, but not in the way she thinks.

Next up: "sexism in classical music: why Beethoven's work sounds too masculine."
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#5  Postby archibald » Nov 06, 2013 10:09 pm

One reader's comment below the OP article:

'all the swedish films i have seen have only two women in all the way through"…im confused'



Lol.
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#6  Postby archibald » Nov 06, 2013 10:11 pm

I applaud Sweden for pointing up a deficit of female protagonists in movies. I am only surprised they used those daft criteria.
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#7  Postby Matt_B » Nov 06, 2013 10:13 pm

Pulsar wrote:By those standards, Sex & The City must be a fucking masterpiece.


Somewhat unsurprisingly, Bechdel is quite a fan of the series:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/the-i ... exism-love
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#8  Postby Skinny Puppy » Nov 06, 2013 10:47 pm

archibald wrote:I applaud Sweden for pointing up a deficit of female protagonists in movies. I am only surprised they used those daft criteria.


Odd, I'm applauding them for raising stupidity to an art form.
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#9  Postby Nicko » Nov 07, 2013 12:08 am

The Bechdel Test is an interesting exercise to highlight things that often slip beneath the radar.

It is, however, entirely possible for a film to pass it and be sexist as all fuck. It is also possible for a film to fail it, while having strong female characters, sensitive male ones and anti-sexist themes. As a test for the presence of sexism, it is absurdly simplistic.

Take Scarlett Johanssen's character in The Avengers - the Black Widow - as an example.

This character:

    Is regarded as so competent by her peers that Agent Coulson is visibly bored whilst waiting for her to beat up a roomful of bad guys despite her beginning the fight tied to a fucking chair. This theme continues throughout the film with no sympathetic character treating her as anything less than a consummate professional.

    Goes from this situation to "bringing in" Dr. Bruce Banner; a task that the entire US Army has failed to do on numerous occasions. Later, she survives the Hulk's attempt to "smash" her with only superficial injuries. The superhumanly-tough Thor suffers more extensive injuries. The Hulk goes on to punch out a plane, a mechanical sky-serpent and about half the invading alien army.

    She holds her own in battle alongside Captain America and Thor, despite having no powers whatsoever. She is the only character to use the aliens' own weapons against them. She is the character who goes after the machine central to the alien invasion and shuts it down. She is the only member of the team not to get either mind-controlled or have a massive childish tanty - admittedly "having a massive childish tanty" is actually Banner's superpower, so maybe he passes too - that threatens the success of their mission.

    She successfully interrogates Loki, by using his own sexist assumptions against him, after Nick Fury fails to get anything other than taunts out of the prick. This is foreshadowed by the initial scene where she insists she is interrogating the corrupt Russian officer who has her tied to a chair. A theme the character clearly develops is, people who make sexist assumptions about women's abilities are fucking idiots.

    She - and this is fucking awesome - clearly regards it as her duty to rescue Clint "Hawkeye" Barton from Loki's mind control. This is not something she does by coincidence along the way when an opportunity comes up; this is a female character who drops everything and deliberately puts herself in harm's way to rescue a male character. She also knocks him out cold, despite him trying to kill her (mind control remember).

And yet, The Avengers fails the Bechdel Test and is therefore sexist because Natasha Romanov and Maria Hill didn't have a 60 second conversation about hair and makeup?

No, I'm not saying that the conversation required by the Bechdel Test has to be about a stereotypically feminine topic; the point is that it could have been. By adding a scene that made two strong, highly-competent professional women look like complete bimbos, The Avengers could have passed this test.

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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#10  Postby archibald » Nov 07, 2013 12:14 am

I say go for it sweden. It'll make people think, even if it is controversial. The proprietor of one of the 4 cinema organisations starting it says himself that many of his favourite films wouldn't pass the test, so if he can say that I guess anybody can still watch what they want.

'Beliefs about women's roles in society are influenced by the fact that movie watchers rarely see "a female superhero or a female professor or person who makes it through exciting challenges and masters them", Tejle said, noting that the rating doesn't say anything about the quality of the film. "The goal is to see more female stories and perspectives on cinema screens," he added.'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/n ... ender-bias


'Sweden is considered to be one of the countries with the greatest gender equality, coming fourth in the World Economic Forum’s Global Gender Gap Report, compared with the UK who came 18th.

A year ago, Sweden the introduced the new gender-neutral pronoun hen, neither the masculine han nor the feminine hon, into its official National Encyclopedia.'


http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 24758.html
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#11  Postby Thommo » Nov 07, 2013 12:22 am

I think Archibald is right, as a publicity stunt and consciousness raiser this has merit. Women not landing enough acting roles is a serious employment equality issue - after all actors and actresses are well compensated for their time.

That said using the test as more than a rule of thumb seems daft. Any authentic war film instantly has to either have deliberately shoehorned in female characters or get a "bad" rating. Then again, how much attention does the average viewer, or let's face it parent, pay to the current film rating systems?
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#12  Postby archibald » Nov 07, 2013 12:27 am

What can I say? I'm a Scandophile. I confess.
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#13  Postby dalv8409 » Nov 07, 2013 12:32 am

I really don't believe that this film ratings will tackle all sexism in a movie, just the ones that may be viewed as sexist towards women by men (mind you Sweden attitude towards sexism is only men are sexist and only women are victims of it). I have no problem with female leads in movies in fact I say to the movie industry worldwide bring it on but I hope that won't lead to movies that are sexist towards men and will easily pass this test. Imagine them bringing in a similar system for video games, a majority of video games will fail that test even the ones that have female protagonists.
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#14  Postby orpheus » Nov 07, 2013 12:56 am

Stupid. Misguided. Will they rate books next? How about theatre, paintings and sculpture? Artists (and I'm not using that word in a bullshit sense - I know most films don't rate as high art, but they fall into the category of creative work) - artists tend not to think about satisfying a checklist of politically correct items to include in their work. There's no reason why they should, and plenty of reasons why they shouldn't. First, how boring would our choices of art and entertainment be if all those boxes had to be ticked? Second, creating art - even bad art - is fucking difficult enough without adding extraneous restrictions that may have nothing whatsoever to do with the work itself. Third, the criteria might even be antithetical to the work (as someone pointed out with the example of a historical war movie).
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#15  Postby orpheus » Nov 07, 2013 12:57 am

Pulsar wrote:By those standards, Sex & The City must be a fucking masterpiece.

“For some people it has been an eye-opener,” Ellen Tejle, director of Stockholm’s Bio Rio cinema, told the Associated Press

I'm sure it has, but not in the way she thinks.

Next up: "sexism in classical music: why Beethoven's work sounds too masculine."


Already been done - and it's worse than you think:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_McCl ... ontroversy
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#16  Postby orpheus » Nov 07, 2013 1:08 am

Another solution I'd propose to those who are dissatisfied with the lack of non-gender-biased films: stop criticizing what others do, get your hands dirty, and make your own damn film. Make it exactly the way you want it.
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#17  Postby Pulsar » Nov 07, 2013 2:06 am

Matt_B wrote:
Pulsar wrote:By those standards, Sex & The City must be a fucking masterpiece.

Somewhat unsurprisingly, Bechdel is quite a fan of the series:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/the-i ... exism-love

orpheus wrote:
Pulsar wrote:Next up: "sexism in classical music: why Beethoven's work sounds too masculine."

Already been done - and it's worse than you think:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_McCl ... ontroversy


Oh FFS! :lol:
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#18  Postby Nicko » Nov 07, 2013 8:54 am

Matt_B wrote:
Pulsar wrote:By those standards, Sex & The City must be a fucking masterpiece.


Somewhat unsurprisingly, Bechdel is quite a fan of the series:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/the-i ... exism-love


Actually, it is surprising since virtually every episode of that show fails her test. It is a rare episode where the four ladies manage to get though an entire conversation without talking about some bloke. According to Wikipedia, this consistent failure of the show to pass the Bechdel Test was even lampshaded on one occasion.
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#19  Postby Matt_B » Nov 07, 2013 9:06 am

Nicko wrote:Actually, it is surprising since virtually every episode of that show fails her test. It is a rare episode where the four ladies manage to get though an entire conversation without talking about some bloke. According to Wikipedia, this consistent failure of the show to pass the Bechdel Test was even lampshaded on one occasion.


I'm not sure about the TV series as I've never watched it but both Sex & The City films pass the Bechdel test, so I'd be surprised if there are many episodes that buck the trend:

http://bechdeltest.com/view/747/
http://bechdeltest.com/view/835/

I'd presume that they talk about all manner of inane crap, but not just men.
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Re: Film ratings for sexism

#20  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Nov 07, 2013 9:18 am

I'm With Stupid wrote:Where else?

Sweden is stamping out sexism at the cinema.

We already have ratings to tell us how much sex, violence and profanity a movie contains, but now the Scandinavian county is pioneering a new system to highlight gender bias on film.

Supported by the Swedish Film Institute, the so-called Bechdel Test will only issue an “A Rating” if a movie passes three simple questions:

1 – Are there two or more named female characters in the film?
2 – Do they talk to each other?
3 – Do they talk to each other about something other than a man?

High profile films that fail the test include the ‘Lord of the Rings’ trilogy, the ‘Star Wars’ franchise, and seven of the eight ‘Harry Potter’ movies.


Is this something you'll take into account when you choose a film to watch?

I think it's vaguely a good idea, but it's a bit black and white. From what I remember, Alien would fail this test, for example, despite having a strong female lead, as would Gravity, for only having two main characters.

I'd wonder more about the rigour and accuracy whith which such a label would be applied.
Seeing as how, for example the presence of blood can decide whether a film is for teens or not and how quickly the sex label gets applied in certain cases...

I like the idea though.
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