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Re: Game of Thrones

#6181  Postby Matthew Shute » Sep 06, 2017 12:51 pm

Stranger things have happened. He is the author's favourite character.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6182  Postby Animavore » Sep 06, 2017 12:56 pm

Lot's of articles on what to watch now that Thrones has finished around the net.

My TV will probably gather dust 'til next season.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6183  Postby Fallible » Sep 06, 2017 8:11 pm

Matthew Shute wrote:Stranger things have happened. He is the author's favourite character.


And mine.
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Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6184  Postby Agrippina » Sep 07, 2017 6:51 am

Mine too. He also has top billing so he'll survive longer.

Any guesses on who will survive to the end?
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6185  Postby crank » Sep 08, 2017 12:20 am

Animavore wrote:Lot's of articles on what to watch now that Thrones has finished around the net.

My TV will probably gather dust 'til next season.


Matthew Shute wrote:Stranger things have happened. He is the author's favourite character.
“When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.”
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6186  Postby Matthew Shute » Sep 10, 2017 11:49 am



Από μικρό κι από τρελό μαθαίνεις την αλήθεια.
From the small and the crazy you learn the truth (Greek proverb).
"Change will preserve us. It is the lifeblood of the Isles. It will move mountains! It will mount movements!" - Sheogorath
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6187  Postby crank » Sep 10, 2017 12:24 pm

No, Joffrey was being cowardly. At least that's far more likely than that he had some reasoned thinking that lead him to think contrary to Tywin. Just because you're wrong doesn't mean you made the wrong decision. We all have to make choices that rely on best-guess probabilities, and you're going to be wrong a lot of the time, doesn't mean you made the wrong decision. Even coming up with wildly inaccurate guesses doesn't necessarily mean your best-guesses were wrong, it could mean something like you're in an outlier situation within another outlier situation. Shit happens, you sure as hell shouldn't change your next estimation based on another outlier popping up.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6188  Postby Matthew Shute » Sep 10, 2017 1:19 pm

Joffrey was a coward, sure; and I'd like to bet he got the idea about forming a standing army from somebody like Robert.

However, Tywin's plan regarding the dragons here amounts to: "Meh, let's do nothing. Nothing will come of it." He, or whichever maesters he's listening to, base the idea of dragons being no bigger than cats on the ones in King's Landing, that were tiny due to living in captivity. Do they not know the reason for the stunted growth? Tyrion seemed to know it. Do they just assume this will apply to these new dragons, without further question? Joffrey asks, "how do you know [these dragons won't be like Aegon's]?" And what's the answer here? Even if you put stock in what the maesters are saying, is it not prudent to prepare and have a plan anyway? These are dragons we're talking about, an obvious game-changer if they grow up, and there's no strong indication that they won't. Doing nothing is a wild gamble based on the most threadbare reasoning.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6189  Postby Pulsar » Sep 10, 2017 1:29 pm



:clap:
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6190  Postby Agrippina » Sep 10, 2017 2:25 pm

I looked at the house lists in the books last night. There's no mention of Aemon Targaryen, he was made up for the TV series it seems. Just thought I'd mention that.

When I watched that scene with Joffrey discussing a continental army recently, I also thought he was showing some wisdom in that. I don't think it was cowardice, maybe it was a little so that he wouldn't have to lead such an army, but also because it's a better idea to put such an army under the command of career soldiers rather than an inexperienced spoilt brat king. At what stage in history did countries unite all their forces under one commander, and at that time, did the king, or the ruler, lead that army into battle? It seems Ancient Greece (Macedonia) and of course Sparta, had a standing army, so it's not a modern idea, before the Ottomans in the 14th century. But those were still under the command of the ruler when they went into battle.

Once the war and the throne has been resolved, is that what will happen in Westeros I wonder?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_army
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6191  Postby crank » Sep 11, 2017 9:07 am

My comments about cowardice were meant for the dragon stuff. I forgot about the standing army shit. It was too out of character since it is of course the right thinking on the issue. The writing is so uneven, you can't tell if they're trying to say something subtle or if it's just poor writing popping up with something easily over-interpreted. Look at the massive record just on Arya's stabbing and the connected before and after scenes. Most whole series probably don't get as much shit as got splayed all over the tubez over this incident. And it's still not necessarily resolved I don't think.

We have these two examples of Joffrey being reasonably intelligent and strategic in his thinking. How many other times has he done so? If you take it as his thinking, I'd have to say he's exhibiting some intelligence with the standing army thing, and the dragon thing was driven by cowardice regardless if it ended with him saying something intelligent.

As far Aemon Targaryen, made up for the TV series? Aren't there about 236 Aemon Targaryens? I haven't read any of the ancillary tales or the lore/history books but I've seen a lot of videos [god have I seen a lot of videos...] they're chock full of stuff that isn't in the books or tv so I may be conflating stuff I've heard about them.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6192  Postby Agrippina » Sep 11, 2017 10:14 am

crank wrote:My comments about cowardice were meant for the dragon stuff. I forgot about the standing army shit. It was too out of character since it is of course the right thinking on the issue. The writing is so uneven, you can't tell if they're trying to say something subtle or if it's just poor writing popping up with something easily over-interpreted. Look at the massive record just on Arya's stabbing and the connected before and after scenes. Most whole series probably don't get as much shit as got splayed all over the tubez over this incident. And it's still not necessarily resolved I don't think.

We have these two examples of Joffrey being reasonably intelligent and strategic in his thinking. How many other times has he done so? If you take it as his thinking, I'd have to say he's exhibiting some intelligence with the standing army thing, and the dragon thing was driven by cowardice regardless if it ended with him saying something intelligent.

As far Aemon Targaryen, made up for the TV series? Aren't there about 236 Aemon Targaryens? I haven't read any of the ancillary tales or the lore/history books but I've seen a lot of videos [god have I seen a lot of videos...] they're chock full of stuff that isn't in the books or tv so I may be conflating stuff I've heard about them.


Yes, I looked again. Of course he appears in the book. He's more than likely the brother referred to in the description of Aegon IV (172-184) , the lover of Queen Naerys, the Dragonknight. Making him over 100 years old at the time of his death.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6193  Postby Matthew Shute » Sep 11, 2017 10:33 am

crank wrote:We have these two examples of Joffrey being reasonably intelligent and strategic in his thinking. How many other times has he done so?


None, as far as I can remember. Joffrey was an ignoramus. Remember when Tyrion gave him a valuable book for his wedding gift? What did Joffrey do? Chopped it in half with his Widow's Wail, to score a cheap point against Tyrion.

The Greek proverb doesn't translate perfectly into English, unless I'm just doing a lousy job. It's meant to indicate that you can sometimes get the right answer from the unlikeliest sources, like the little and crazy. Like Joffrey.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6194  Postby Agrippina » Sep 11, 2017 11:03 am

Matthew Shute wrote:
crank wrote:We have these two examples of Joffrey being reasonably intelligent and strategic in his thinking. How many other times has he done so?


None, as far as I can remember. Joffrey was an ignoramus. Remember when Tyrion gave him a valuable book for his wedding gift? What did Joffrey do? Chopped it in half with his Widow's Wail, to score a cheap point against Tyrion.

The Greek proverb doesn't translate perfectly into English, unless I'm just doing a lousy job. It's meant to indicate that you can sometimes get the right answer from the unlikeliest sources, like the little and crazy. Like Joffrey.


Yep.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6195  Postby Shrunk » Sep 11, 2017 5:13 pm

Fallible wrote:
Matthew Shute wrote:Stranger things have happened. He is the author's favourite character.


And mine.


One of mine, too (though he competes with The Hound and Cersei). But not this season. He somehow turned pompous and dumb. And I don't think that was intentional.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6196  Postby Fallible » Sep 12, 2017 7:13 am

Mm, I know what you mean. I think the writing this season has turned the cast into caricatures.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6197  Postby Agrippina » Sep 12, 2017 7:13 am

I think he's terrified. Too much responsibility and too many bad things beyond his control, and I think he's worried about the impact of Jon and Dany becoming involved. Perhaps a little overwhelmed.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6198  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Sep 13, 2017 12:42 pm

Pulsar wrote:

:clap:

While I agree with a lot of his points, I'm getting rather tired of these ridiculous claims/praises that GoT is so genre defying and 'showing us our real selves and making us fear what we could do' crap.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6199  Postby willhud9 » Sep 13, 2017 10:55 pm

GOT wasn't genre defying and neither was ASoIaF. It's popular because people who don't like fantasy can watch it and be sucked into the drama of the show.

I enjoy it, but to say it has made me evaluate myself or hold the fantasy genre to higher critique is laughable. I can list 10 fantasy series all better than Song of Ice and Fire.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6200  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Sep 13, 2017 11:08 pm

willhud9 wrote:GOT wasn't genre defying and neither was ASoIaF.

I mean ASoIaF specifically. Just easier to call it GoT. ;)


willhud9 wrote: It's popular because people who don't like fantasy can watch it and be sucked into the drama of the show.

I enjoy it, but to say it has made me evaluate myself or hold the fantasy genre to higher critique is laughable. I can list 10 fantasy series all better than Song of Ice and Fire.

:nod:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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