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Re: Game of Thrones

#6741  Postby WayOfTheDodo » May 30, 2019 4:02 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Animavore wrote:Bottle of water.

Image

Barely noticeable, unlike the coffee cup.

It's another sign that the creators just didn't give a shit anymore.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:I also don't buy Greyworm, the Unsullied and the Dothraki agreeing with that sentence. Speaking of the Dothraki, where'd they go in the resolution?

Dumb&Dumber "kind of forgot" that they said after the Night King battle that the Dothrakis were basically wiped out, so they undid the magical respawn the Dothrakis made just before the invasion of Kings Landing.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6742  Postby WayOfTheDodo » May 30, 2019 5:04 pm

purplerat wrote:Being overwhelmed doesn't mean they were completely wiped out.

But Dumb&Dumber did say that we essentially saw the end of the Dothraki after the Winterfell battle. And yet they were back in full force just a little bit later.

You are defending Dumb&Dumber. That is pretty sad.



purplerat wrote:It took them 3 years to produce 2 seasons which are really only about 1.5 seasons. So basically it was taking them 2 years per season with diminishing returns at that. Which I think is practically unavoidable in TV. I think the season 8 we got was the least worst option for ending the series. Yes it could have been better but the idea of 5 more seasons spread out over another decade sounds torturous.

It took them 3 years to produce 2 seasons because they chose to focus more on cool special effects and boring war than going back to the core of the show.

The season 8 we got was the worst option by far, because it could have been done far more competently even with the same limitations. There are tons of people out there with suggestions on how the final season could have been massively improved with relatively small changes. It would still not have been great, but not the shitty mess we actually got.

We didn't need 5 seasons spread over a decade. 5 seasons could have taken 5 more years, but they didn't even need 5 more seasons.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6743  Postby Macdoc » May 31, 2019 2:37 pm

Wonder if he predicts the stock market too.....or Bitcoin ;)

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https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/el ... prediction
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6744  Postby Animavore » Jun 04, 2019 8:11 pm

Game of Thrones S08 seems to be a boon for YouTubers. There's a whole subgenre of Why season 8 sucks out there.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6745  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 14, 2019 4:56 pm

Animavore wrote:Game of Thrones S08 seems to be a boon for YouTubers. There's a whole subgenre of Why season 8 sucks out there.

Yup:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6746  Postby willhud9 » Aug 14, 2019 5:11 pm

Lindsay Ellis is one of the few youtubers I actually support.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6747  Postby purplerat » Aug 14, 2019 5:59 pm

Hate-watching/consuming of pop culture is a cottage industry all unto it's on.

I'm thoroughly convinced that the vast majority of social media commentators go into every TV show, movie, game, book, song, etc. with the explicit goal of coming out angry. Which is understandable seeing as it's such an easy source of income. What baffles me is why there is such an audience for it. I can't wrap my head around why people spend so much time on entertainment that they don't like.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6748  Postby Animavore » Aug 14, 2019 6:33 pm

People didn't watch GoT season 8 to hate on it. They were all long time fans who loved the show and followed it for years, were expecting something epic, and left utterly disappointed.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6749  Postby purplerat » Aug 14, 2019 6:42 pm

I didn't say the average viewer went into it wanting to hate it. I was talking about the Youtube commentators specifically. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of "Why GoT season 8 sucks" are from Youtubers who regularly post "Why _____ sucks" videos and not long time fans of GoT specifically.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6750  Postby Arcanyn » Aug 14, 2019 9:14 pm

purplerat wrote:Hate-watching/consuming of pop culture is a cottage industry all unto it's on.

I'm thoroughly convinced that the vast majority of social media commentators go into every TV show, movie, game, book, song, etc. with the explicit goal of coming out angry. Which is understandable seeing as it's such an easy source of income. What baffles me is why there is such an audience for it. I can't wrap my head around why people spend so much time on entertainment that they don't like.


Because they find analysis of what precisely makes good writing good and bad writing bad interesting?
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6751  Postby purplerat » Aug 14, 2019 9:36 pm

Arcanyn wrote:
purplerat wrote:Hate-watching/consuming of pop culture is a cottage industry all unto it's on.

I'm thoroughly convinced that the vast majority of social media commentators go into every TV show, movie, game, book, song, etc. with the explicit goal of coming out angry. Which is understandable seeing as it's such an easy source of income. What baffles me is why there is such an audience for it. I can't wrap my head around why people spend so much time on entertainment that they don't like.


Because they find analysis of what precisely makes good writing good and bad writing bad interesting?

I'm sure there's a few people who do come at it from that angle. But given the typical responses you see (the writers are lazy, they just plain suck, they only care about getting paid, etc.) it's hard to buy that there's any real interest in deep or nuanced analysis.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6752  Postby arugula2 » Aug 14, 2019 9:50 pm

purplerat wrote:I'm willing to bet the vast majority of "Why GoT season 8 sucks" are from Youtubers who regularly post "Why _____ sucks" videos and not long time fans of GoT specifically.

Haven’t seen anything yet to suggest that (among the haters). Even less likely if we’re including ppl who were fans of the books first. I was a show-hater long before I got around to watching it in earnest (based mostly on plot points & clips). I tolerated up to mid-season 4, motivated mainly by a handful of decent performances. When I first gave up on it (after binge session #1) I outright hated the show. When I picked it back up for session #2, it was out of morbid curiosity for how it would end. Paradoxically, I thought that starting around mid-season 6, the show was at its strongest (starting with when it had progressed beyond the books).

IRT the general disappointment with Daenerys’s turn, I wasn’t disappointed, nor surprised. Yes, the books suggest the possibility - and in the books (#5) she hasn’t even left the east. By season 6 of the show, as she’s moving west her dialogues increasingly hint at it (especially with Tyrion), until it’s a frakkin fire alarm. That it follows naturally from the earlier book hints, tells me it aligned with grrm’s intended broad strokes. On this specific point, the hater fanbois weren’t paying attention imo.

But the general sense that the final 2 seasons felt “rushed” or “thin” probably would’ve benefited from bingeing. Weekly episodes don't serve a narrative of this kind well, especially with “mid season” gaps. I hope the concept gets phased out altogether.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6753  Postby willhud9 » Aug 14, 2019 10:16 pm

purplerat wrote:I didn't say the average viewer went into it wanting to hate it. I was talking about the Youtube commentators specifically. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of "Why GoT season 8 sucks" are from Youtubers who regularly post "Why _____ sucks" videos and not long time fans of GoT specifically.


I doubt it. Most of the writing channels I follow have talked about how Season 8 failed due to writing and poor character development while having previous videos on the development of Game of Thrones or if not GoT specifically other significant pop culture related to writing, plot development, settings, tropes, etc.

The Lindsay Ellis video above actually addresses the difference between say the backlash against how GoT ended and the backlash against say Star Wars. By the by people have focused on the writing of season 8 and laid the blame squarely at D&D's feet. But the backlash against Star Wars got mired in sexism and hate towards the cast. Rose in Episode 8 was given so much undeserved hate and the actress who played her was bullied on social media so much she had to shut down her account.

Just looking at my YouTube wall I see videos arguing the pros and cons of the Marvel cinematic universe, I see videos arguing why the live action Disney remakes are bad. All trending topics in today's pop culture. Youtubers know how to play to current pop culture trends. But overall, these video essays are usually done with intelligence, wit, and some modicum of humor.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6754  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 15, 2019 7:29 am

willhud9 wrote:Lindsay Ellis is one of the few youtubers I actually support.

Ditto.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6755  Postby purplerat » Aug 15, 2019 2:44 pm

willhud9 wrote:
purplerat wrote:I didn't say the average viewer went into it wanting to hate it. I was talking about the Youtube commentators specifically. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of "Why GoT season 8 sucks" are from Youtubers who regularly post "Why _____ sucks" videos and not long time fans of GoT specifically.


I doubt it. Most of the writing channels I follow have talked about how Season 8 failed due to writing and poor character development while having previous videos on the development of Game of Thrones or if not GoT specifically other significant pop culture related to writing, plot development, settings, tropes, etc.

The Lindsay Ellis video above actually addresses the difference between say the backlash against how GoT ended and the backlash against say Star Wars. By the by people have focused on the writing of season 8 and laid the blame squarely at D&D's feet. But the backlash against Star Wars got mired in sexism and hate towards the cast. Rose in Episode 8 was given so much undeserved hate and the actress who played her was bullied on social media so much she had to shut down her account.

Just looking at my YouTube wall I see videos arguing the pros and cons of the Marvel cinematic universe, I see videos arguing why the live action Disney remakes are bad. All trending topics in today's pop culture. Youtubers know how to play to current pop culture trends. But overall, these video essays are usually done with intelligence, wit, and some modicum of humor.

Fair enough.

My comments weren't even specific to GoT, rather I'm genuinely interested in why so many people seem to spend a lot of time consuming or talking about entertainment that they claim to not like or even hate. It's similar to how we have a highly polarized political world where people tend to spend a lot of time and energy focused on "the other side". At least with politics I can see the sense in that. I don't get it when it comes to entertainment unless people are being entertained by being angry or upset that they didn't like something.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6756  Postby arugula2 » Aug 15, 2019 3:58 pm

purplerat wrote:
Fair enough.

My comments weren't even specific to GoT, rather I'm genuinely interested in why so many people seem to spend a lot of time consuming or talking about entertainment that they claim to not like or even hate. It's similar to how we have a highly polarized political world where people tend to spend a lot of time and energy focused on "the other side". At least with politics I can see the sense in that. I don't get it when it comes to entertainment unless people are being entertained by being angry or upset that they didn't like something.

That’s a thing. But for probably the majority of them, at least the germ of a reason includes 1) love of a product or medium, and 2) desire to see the product reflect the high expectations of paying customers, and not so much the corporate habits of an industry. What’s crucial, I think, is that the public will always have superior methods/products to compare, so a lack of resources or talent is not an excuse, especially for someone like HBO.

As for telling them apart (the haters-for-the-sake-of-hating and the fanbois)... unless the review is very very ineptly disguised, you shouldn’t be able to really tell the difference - and certainly not enough to generalize in such a way as to exclude/minimize fanboidom.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6757  Postby WayOfTheDodo » Sep 05, 2019 8:02 pm

purplerat wrote:Hate-watching/consuming of pop culture is a cottage industry all unto it's on.

I'm thoroughly convinced that the vast majority of social media commentators go into every TV show, movie, game, book, song, etc. with the explicit goal of coming out angry. Which is understandable seeing as it's such an easy source of income. What baffles me is why there is such an audience for it. I can't wrap my head around why people spend so much time on entertainment that they don't like.

Not in the case of GoT. People really wanted the show to have a decent ending. It didn't. The last season sucked. That's why it's getting all the hate: Real, actual fans who expected better, but got served a plate of shit.

And all those "Season 8 Sucks" videos are from actual fans who were hoping for something good but got served crap.

purplerat wrote:
Arcanyn wrote:
purplerat wrote:Hate-watching/consuming of pop culture is a cottage industry all unto it's on.

I'm thoroughly convinced that the vast majority of social media commentators go into every TV show, movie, game, book, song, etc. with the explicit goal of coming out angry. Which is understandable seeing as it's such an easy source of income. What baffles me is why there is such an audience for it. I can't wrap my head around why people spend so much time on entertainment that they don't like.


Because they find analysis of what precisely makes good writing good and bad writing bad interesting?

I'm sure there's a few people who do come at it from that angle. But given the typical responses you see (the writers are lazy, they just plain suck, they only care about getting paid, etc.) it's hard to buy that there's any real interest in deep or nuanced analysis.

Are you joking? People have been going deep, analyzing what's wrong with the shitty last season, and also criticized the producers for lazy and incompetent writing with specific and detailed criticism.

purplerat wrote:I'm genuinely interested in why so many people seem to spend a lot of time consuming or talking about entertainment that they claim to not like or even hate.

Because they didn't actually hate the show before. But they were extremely disappointed with season 8, and by then they had spent several years of their lives on the show. All for a shitty last season that is basically an insult to the viewers.

If you invest a lot of time in something, I'm sure you would be pissed off too, if it kicked you in the face towards the end.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6758  Postby scott1328 » Sep 05, 2019 8:34 pm

HBO's Game of Thrones finale season did what few popular, long-running series have done. It ruins the re-watchability of the entire series.

For example: Dexter,the ShoTime series, has probably one of the worst finale season ever put to screen. But, it doesn't ruin the rewatchability of the first four seasons at all.

Similarly, while The Sopranos finale season is not well-loved and its finale episode is much-hated, the whole series is certainly rewatchable.

Lost is another series whose finale season ruined re-watchability, but I don't think the hate is quite as universal.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6759  Postby purplerat » Sep 05, 2019 9:34 pm

GoT, both the TV series and the books, has major story problems starting somewhere between seasons/books 3 & 4. Season 8 didn't make those problems worse it just didn't fix them. If you're going back and rewatching or rereading those earlier parts the problems that were always there might just be more evident to you now. I mean books 4 and 5 were heavily criticized for being major downgrades in quality from the first 3 and that was before the TV series even got rolling.

I loved Dexter too but the problems with that show, and to a lesser degree the books it was based on, are even worse. The show had a cool premise but they went nowhere with it after the first season and it just became unbelievably repetitive. Ironically I think the failure of that finale season is the opposite of what happened with GoT where Dexter actually attempted to fix some of the problems that had long played the story but it just didn't work.
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Re: Game of Thrones

#6760  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Sep 05, 2019 11:58 pm

purplerat wrote:GoT, both the TV series and the books, has major story problems starting somewhere between seasons/books 3 & 4. Season 8 didn't make those problems worse it just didn't fix them.

And added additional problems all on it's own.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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