Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#41  Postby TopCat » Apr 25, 2017 2:47 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
TopCat wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
TopCat wrote:My pet peeve would be: everything after The Original Series and the first 6 movies.

:?
So you like the TNG films, but not the series?

Ha, well spotted.

No, I meant of course, everything other than The Original Series and the first 6 movies.

I might make an exception for the prequel movie that has a young Kirk and Spock, but I haven't seen it so I can't comment. It would take quite a lot to sway me from my fundamentalist position that there's only One True Star Trek :dance:

So, just verifying, One True Star Trek = Enterprise, TNG, Voyager, DS9 and films 7 through 10?

What? Nooooooo! I might have to declare a fatwa against you soon...

This is a Pet Peeve thread. My Pet Peeve is everything other than The Original Series and the first 6 movies.

The One True Star Trek is the original series, and the first 6 movies, which had the same original cast. No contamination with any new-fangled modern doctrine here, no siree.

Phew, hope that's clear!
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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#42  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 25, 2017 2:49 pm

TopCat wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
TopCat wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
:?
So you like the TNG films, but not the series?

Ha, well spotted.

No, I meant of course, everything other than The Original Series and the first 6 movies.

I might make an exception for the prequel movie that has a young Kirk and Spock, but I haven't seen it so I can't comment. It would take quite a lot to sway me from my fundamentalist position that there's only One True Star Trek :dance:

So, just verifying, One True Star Trek = Enterprise, TNG, Voyager, DS9 and films 7 through 10?

What? Nooooooo! I might have to declare a fatwa against you soon...

This is a Pet Peeve thread. My Pet Peeve is everything other than The Original Series and the first 6 movies.

Ah, now I get it. Thanks for clearing that up.
Now please wait while I get ready to burn you as a heretic.... ;)
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#43  Postby Mike_L » Apr 25, 2017 3:04 pm

tuco wrote:Honestly? Probably lack of sexual tension.


A month late replying to this, but...

(From the synopsis on the YouTube page...)
This is an expansion of a short set of clips that Gene Roddenberry had put together after the second season, that set was just about 2 minutes and mostly bloopers, but the few suggestive shots were enough to make me wonder what a full version would look like, so enjoy!


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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#44  Postby Mike_L » Apr 25, 2017 3:23 pm

For those interested in the technical side (specifically the visual effects) of Star Trek: The Next Generation TV series...

The producers originally planned to have the FX done digitally, but the CGI of the time (1987) wasn't quite up to scratch, so they went old-school with a model built by ILM (Industrial Light & Magic), as seen in this brief (one-and-a-half minutes) video...



(From the above video...)
* the model (molded fiberglass around an aluminum frame) was large and very heavy, requiring four to six people to lift it every time it had to be positioned for the camera.

Image

* it cost about $75 000 to construct the model
* the model contained fourteen neon light circuits, which often delivered nasty electric shocks to the handlers.
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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#45  Postby tuco » Apr 25, 2017 3:42 pm

Indeed, the series reflects segment of technological progress quite well.

Universal translator. I mean wtf? That aliens got technologies we can understand because of laws of nature alright, but how can it decipher alien language in real time without a doze of misunderstandings is beyond me.
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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#46  Postby tuco » Apr 25, 2017 3:52 pm

PensivePenny wrote:Female officers are referred to as "sir." Later, mid-season Voyager (I think) they finally learn that there is nothing demeaning about the title "ma'am."


Voyager opens with this:

JANEWAY: Come in.
(Paris and Kim enter.)
JANEWAY: Gentlemen, welcome aboard Voyager.
KIM: Thank you, sir.
JANEWAY: Mister Kim, at ease before you sprain something. Ensign, despite Starfleet protocol, I don't like being addressed as sir.
KIM: I'm sorry, ma'am.
JANEWAY: Ma'am is acceptable in a crunch, but I prefer Captain. We're getting ready to leave. Let me show you to the bridge.


http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/101.htm

I also prefer Captain.
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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#47  Postby PensivePenny » Apr 25, 2017 4:01 pm

tuco wrote:Indeed, the series reflects segment of technological progress quite well.

Universal translator. I mean wtf? That aliens got technologies we can understand because of laws of nature alright, but how can it decipher alien language in real time without a doze of misunderstandings is beyond me.


Good point. The Enterprise series with Scott Bakula, I thought, kinda helped me with that as there was NO working translator at the time... but the wizard comm officer was supposed to be a prodigy in language... meh...

There was an episode where Riker and others infiltrate a world that is just about to embark on FTL travel. Riker is injured and wakes up in a hospital. His physiology is so bizarre, the doctors don't know what to make of him. Not knowing of other extra-planetary species, the doctors ask what is this, the phasor? Riker asks the whereabouts of a "piece of jewelry"... his communicator which they never produced. Otherwise Picard would have just beamed him up. Since the communicator houses the UT, how the hell could he communicate with them?? Then he has sex with one so she'll help him escape. Doh!
When the insanity overshadows, the sanity. The sane take their leave. Last word is up for grabs. Enjoy :cheers:

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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#48  Postby PensivePenny » Apr 25, 2017 4:04 pm

tuco wrote:
PensivePenny wrote:Female officers are referred to as "sir." Later, mid-season Voyager (I think) they finally learn that there is nothing demeaning about the title "ma'am."


Voyager opens with this:

JANEWAY: Come in.
(Paris and Kim enter.)
JANEWAY: Gentlemen, welcome aboard Voyager.
KIM: Thank you, sir.
JANEWAY: Mister Kim, at ease before you sprain something. Ensign, despite Starfleet protocol, I don't like being addressed as sir.
KIM: I'm sorry, ma'am.
JANEWAY: Ma'am is acceptable in a crunch, but I prefer Captain. We're getting ready to leave. Let me show you to the bridge.


http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/101.htm

I also prefer Captain.


Very good tuco! I remember that scene. :thumbup: One of my favorite! But here it is what, the 25th century before they realized 'sir' was inappropriate? Aren't current female officers referred to as ma'am?
When the insanity overshadows, the sanity. The sane take their leave. Last word is up for grabs. Enjoy :cheers:

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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#49  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 25, 2017 4:14 pm

tuco wrote:Indeed, the series reflects segment of technological progress quite well.

Universal translator. I mean wtf? That aliens got technologies we can understand because of laws of nature alright, but how can it decipher alien language in real time without a doze of misunderstandings is beyond me.

Of course, this remains science-fiction ultimately, but the excuse was that most, if not all languages, operate on the same basic principles, such as grammar and that if a computer heard enough of a language spoken, it could, after a while, create a translation.
This was demonstrated in at least one DS9 episode where they meet a new race from the Gamma quadrant, which had such a different language it took the universal translator quite some time to create a fully function translation.
It is also implied that langauges need to be programmed into the translators.
In the episode where the Damar first meets the Breen; he remarks that if he'd known they'd meet the Breen, he would have adjusted his translator.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#50  Postby tuco » Apr 25, 2017 5:19 pm

As it was mentioned Star Trek's about philosophy and also has lets say sociological dimension. If it was about prosthetic foreheads and neon light circuits, who knows is there was Trekkie religion. It was intended like that, visionary.

So they could not understand each other but they had sex? Sounds about right. What episode?
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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#51  Postby PensivePenny » Apr 25, 2017 5:51 pm

tuco, "First Contact" is the 15th episode of the fourth season (and the 89th episode overall)

I didn't have an issue with the sex... but without the ability to communicate, it would have been much more interesting than the quid pro quo (have sex, I help you) contract they negotiated (without a communicator) rather than grunts, nudges other manner of body language.
When the insanity overshadows, the sanity. The sane take their leave. Last word is up for grabs. Enjoy :cheers:

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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#52  Postby NineBerry » Apr 25, 2017 8:33 pm

PensivePenny wrote:
LucidFlight wrote:An over-reliance on prosthetic foreheads. Although, I have learned to forgive this, after learning about the cost and difficulties of portraying believable aliens on a TV show.


Yes, good point. That's always annoyed me too. Plus, the Trills had forehead prosthetics initially in STNG. Then, they decided to go with sexy spots. While on the topic, the whole major evolution of Klingon appearance that took place between the original series and NG is finally swept under the rug in DS9 with a "don't ask, we don't like to talk about it."

Consistency!



Explanation is given in 4th season of ST:ENT
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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#53  Postby PensivePenny » Apr 25, 2017 9:05 pm

ENT? Enterprise?
When the insanity overshadows, the sanity. The sane take their leave. Last word is up for grabs. Enjoy :cheers:

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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#55  Postby PensivePenny » Apr 25, 2017 9:20 pm

Oh yeah, I remember that episode, vaguely. Reading about it, it seems like they still fudged it a little. Points though for the prequel helping with suspension of disbelief.
When the insanity overshadows, the sanity. The sane take their leave. Last word is up for grabs. Enjoy :cheers:

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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#56  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 25, 2017 11:20 pm

PensivePenny wrote:
tuco wrote:Indeed, the series reflects segment of technological progress quite well.

Universal translator. I mean wtf? That aliens got technologies we can understand because of laws of nature alright, but how can it decipher alien language in real time without a doze of misunderstandings is beyond me.


Good point. The Enterprise series with Scott Bakula, I thought, kinda helped me with that as there was NO working translator at the time... but the wizard comm officer was supposed to be a prodigy in language... meh...

There was nothing magical about it. She was an accomplished anthropological linguist.
We have those even now.
The only questionable thing is the assumption that all languages work on the same principles and can therefore be (eventually) understood by expert linguists or computer programs designed to translate alien languages.

PensivePenny wrote:
There was an episode where Riker and others infiltrate a world that is just about to embark on FTL travel. Riker is injured and wakes up in a hospital. His physiology is so bizarre, the doctors don't know what to make of him. Not knowing of other extra-planetary species, the doctors ask what is this, the phasor? Riker asks the whereabouts of a "piece of jewelry"... his communicator which they never produced. Otherwise Picard would have just beamed him up. Since the communicator houses the UT, how the hell could he communicate with them?? Then he has sex with one so she'll help him escape. Doh!

I don't recall if his badge was really gone. If so its probably a plothole though.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#57  Postby proudfootz » Apr 26, 2017 1:09 am

Like superpowers in comic book heroes, the scientific powers seem to be more or less plot driven and inconsistent.

It doesn't bother me generally, because the lower my expectations, the more latitude I give the writers.

However, I generally don't like stories about time travel back and forth and I don't like magic powers ascribed to aliens along the lines of 'Who Mourns for Adonis' and 'Catspaw'.
"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." - Mark Twain
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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#58  Postby Animavore » Apr 26, 2017 6:22 am

My main beef with Star Trek has always been that there's too much yap-yap and not enough pew-pew.

There. I said it.
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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#59  Postby VazScep » Apr 26, 2017 7:30 am

Matthew Shute wrote::this: Almost every extraterrestrial in every far-flung solar system that the Enterprise visits turns out to be... yet another humanoid with different knobbly bits on his face or head. H. P. Lovecraft would not have been impressed.

Space. The unfathomable void. Fools on the starship Miskatonic, its miscalculated mission to explore strange worlds, attempt to seek out beings who had mercifully not noticed us until now, will finally establish the utter irrelevance and alienness of human affairs in the cosmos.

I used to put it down to a chronic lack of imagination, but yes, I assume it has more to do with practical difficulties and cost.
I think I'd be more annoyed if the aliens had exotic physiologies but still exhibited blatant human social behaviour, civilisation and cognition. At that point, it becomes a cartoon. I find it easier to accept aliens that act completely human when they look near human.

And aliens with truly alien minds would make for a very different show.
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Re: Pet Peeves I have about the Star Trek franchise...

#60  Postby Scot Dutchy » Apr 26, 2017 10:22 am

Star Trek was a programme of its time. Television was different in those days. It was entertainment now it is more about information with a few crappy drama series's thrown in.
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