Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#41  Postby igorfrankensteen » Sep 14, 2016 11:37 pm

Just working from memory here:

I don't ever recall it being said that the Federation didn't use MONEY. I do remember some notable situations where it was made clear that no one carried CASH, but that's different.

And I also don't recall anyone saying that everything was "free," or that no one had to work. There WAS a mention several times, that the Federation, or Earth in general, had "done away with want and poverty." But again, that's entirely different from the idea that everything has been socialized.

I think various people, quite possibly including me, are remembering not what the various shows actually SAID, but rather remembering what we the particular viewer THOUGHT ABOUT what they said, at that time.
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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#42  Postby tuco » Sep 15, 2016 6:54 am

Don't work from memory, Google does not make us dumber ok?

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Money

No one had to work? lol What this has to do with anything? In fact, in the so-called communism of Soviet era/bloc, everyone had to work, it was illegal not to work and who did not work could go to jail, unlike in capitalism where those with (but also without) money do not have to work.

Property, ownership of property, is indeed concept very hard to overcome in any utopia simply because land (on Earth) is finite unlike energy.

You said:

Oh, piffle. Star Trek wasn't "communist." Not remotely.


Now you are trying to get away with it by arguing what "not remotely" means? Two thumbs up piffle indeed. RS
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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#43  Postby igorfrankensteen » Sep 16, 2016 11:59 am

tuco wrote:Don't work from memory, Google does not make us dumber ok?

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Money

No one had to work? lol What this has to do with anything? In fact, in the so-called communism of Soviet era/bloc, everyone had to work, it was illegal not to work and who did not work could go to jail, unlike in capitalism where those with (but also without) money do not have to work.

Property, ownership of property, is indeed concept very hard to overcome in any utopia simply because land (on Earth) is finite unlike energy.

You said:

Oh, piffle. Star Trek wasn't "communist." Not remotely.


Now you are trying to get away with it by arguing what "not remotely" means? Two thumbs up piffle indeed. RS


100% of the quotes in your link, support exactly what I said I remembered. If you have analyzed those quotes into saying anything else, you are supporting and illustrating my suggestion that people are going not on what was actually done and said on the show, but rather going on what their own personal REACTION to it was, at the time.


Note for example, that most people NOWADAYS don't use money, most of the time. We pay for things with credit cards, electronic signatures, even clicks of an ap on a cell phone.

And note also, that no matter what the quote is where they talk about eliminating want and so on, they never even ONCE specify that the manner and means they used to do this, was to switch to communal systems, or to ownership of the means of production by the workers. Not even close. You can find our current day politicians using nearly the same statements, no matter what party they belong to, or what economic system they otherwise champion.

The infamous "rising tide lifts all boats" thing, is a classic example. That sure as hell wasn't said in support of socialism. It was said with the idea that the way boats get lifted, is for everyone to get a friggen job, work like hell, and lift their own damn boat. The Republican Party in my country, talks non-stop about the idea that all poverty and disease and so on can be eliminated, if we all just dedicate ourselves to saying "shove it" to anyone who asks for help (except rich people), so that they are forced for their own good, to suck it up and work, regardless of their challenges.

I am reminded of more than a few science fiction subplots, where some new alien group showed up, young and energetic, all wearing shiny clothes, and having a lovely time, talking about how they had solved the problem of aging. In the end, we discover that their solution to aging, is for everyone over thirty to march into a meat processing plant.
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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#44  Postby ScholasticSpastic » Sep 16, 2016 1:53 pm

lpetrich wrote:This sort of question was officially avoided for TOS: - Star_Trek_Writers_Guide.pdf

What is Earth like in STAR TREK'S CENTURY?

For one thing, we'll never take a story back there and therefore don't expect to get into subject s which would create great problems, technical and other wise. The "U.S.S." on our ship designation stands for "United Space Ship" -- indicating (without troublesome specifics) that mankind has found some unity on Earth, perhaps at long last even peace. If you require a statement such as one that Earth cities of the future are splendidly planned with fifty-mile parkland strips around them, fine. But television today simply will not let us get into details of Earth's politics of STAR TREK,'S century; for example, which socio-economic system ultimately worked out best.

I think Ipetrich pretty much nailed it. The Star Trekkians don't practice Communism or Socialism, or even Capitalism. They've invented Rorschach economics. It looks like whatever you want to see.
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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#45  Postby tuco » Sep 16, 2016 4:25 pm

igorfrankensteen wrote:
tuco wrote:Don't work from memory, Google does not make us dumber ok?

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Money

No one had to work? lol What this has to do with anything? In fact, in the so-called communism of Soviet era/bloc, everyone had to work, it was illegal not to work and who did not work could go to jail, unlike in capitalism where those with (but also without) money do not have to work.

Property, ownership of property, is indeed concept very hard to overcome in any utopia simply because land (on Earth) is finite unlike energy.

You said:

Oh, piffle. Star Trek wasn't "communist." Not remotely.


Now you are trying to get away with it by arguing what "not remotely" means? Two thumbs up piffle indeed. RS


100% of the quotes in your link, support exactly what I said I remembered. If you have analyzed those quotes into saying anything else, you are supporting and illustrating my suggestion that people are going not on what was actually done and said on the show, but rather going on what their own personal REACTION to it was, at the time.


Note for example, that most people NOWADAYS don't use money, most of the time. We pay for things with credit cards, electronic signatures, even clicks of an ap on a cell phone.

And note also, that no matter what the quote is where they talk about eliminating want and so on, they never even ONCE specify that the manner and means they used to do this, was to switch to communal systems, or to ownership of the means of production by the workers. Not even close. You can find our current day politicians using nearly the same statements, no matter what party they belong to, or what economic system they otherwise champion.

The infamous "rising tide lifts all boats" thing, is a classic example. That sure as hell wasn't said in support of socialism. It was said with the idea that the way boats get lifted, is for everyone to get a friggen job, work like hell, and lift their own damn boat. The Republican Party in my country, talks non-stop about the idea that all poverty and disease and so on can be eliminated, if we all just dedicate ourselves to saying "shove it" to anyone who asks for help (except rich people), so that they are forced for their own good, to suck it up and work, regardless of their challenges.

I am reminded of more than a few science fiction subplots, where some new alien group showed up, young and energetic, all wearing shiny clothes, and having a lovely time, talking about how they had solved the problem of aging. In the end, we discover that their solution to aging, is for everyone over thirty to march into a meat processing plant.


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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#46  Postby tuco » Oct 16, 2016 2:24 pm

Trekkie—OK, and President—Barack Obama on Why Star Trek Is So Important

Yes, Obama, who was the guest editor for our November issue, spent his childhood watching and re-watching Star Trek. But for the leader of the free world, his fandom goes beyond unbridled enthusiasm for gadgets and space travel. As he said in an interview with Editor-in-Chief Scott Dadich and MIT’s Joi Ito, Star Trek is more than a story of intergalactic adventure. It “was really talking about a notion of a common humanity and a confidence in our ability to solve problems.”

As much as Star Trek was about space travel and futuristic world-building and intergalactic domination, it celebrated curiosity and teamwork—values that inform innovative exploration from the Enterprise to NASA to Silicon Valley. “What made the show lasting was it wasn’t actually about technology,” Obama says. “It was about values and relationships.”


https://www.wired.com/2016/10/potus-star-trek/
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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#47  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 16, 2016 4:38 pm

I remember the first series with the cardboard scenery. If the ran too fast everything moved. A shoestring was not the word. :lol:
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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#48  Postby BlackBart » Oct 16, 2016 5:16 pm

The TOS certainly wasn't shot on a shoestring. Each episode cost at least $190,000 which would be over a million in today's money. The scenery wasn't brilliant by today's standards, but it certainly didn't look cardboardy to me. Any compromises were probably more down to tight shooting schedules than anything else.
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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#49  Postby tuco » Oct 16, 2016 5:27 pm

Indeed, not sure why the MIT guy nodded at the notion.
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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#50  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 17, 2016 10:42 am

BlackBart wrote:The TOS certainly wasn't shot on a shoestring. Each episode cost at least $190,000 which would be over a million in today's money. The scenery wasn't brilliant by today's standards, but it certainly didn't look cardboardy to me. Any compromises were probably more down to tight shooting schedules than anything else.


The very first series? The TOS was totally remastered and updated which was started in 2006.

In September 2006, CBS Paramount Domestic Television (now known as CBS Television Distribution, the current rights holders for the Star Trek television franchises) began syndication of an enhanced version of Star Trek: The Original Series in high definition with new CGI visual effects.[73]

Under the direction of Star Trek producer David Rossi, who consulted with Mike and Denise Okuda, the visual and special effects were recreated to give Star Trek: The Original Series a more modern look. Special attention was given to such elements as the Enterprise, alien planets and their images depicted from space, planets seen from orbit, alien spacecraft, and technology such as computer readouts, viewscreen images, and phaser beams.

The restoration and enhancement was performed by CBS Digital. All live-action footage was scanned in high definition from its first-generation 35 mm film elements. While it was possible to retouch and remaster some visual effects, all new exterior ship, space and planet shots were recreated under the supervision of Emmy-nominated visual effects supervisor Niel Wray.

As noted in the "making of" DVD feature, first generation "original camera negatives" were used for all live-action footage but not for external shots of the ship and planets. Notable changes include new space shots with a CGI Enterprise, and other new models (for example, a Gorn ship is shown in "Arena"), redone matte background shots, and other minor touches such as tidying up viewscreens.

A small number of scenes have also been recomposed, and sometimes new actors have been placed into the background of some shots.[74] In addition, the opening theme music has been re-recorded in digital stereo.


I remember seeing it in the late sixties/seventies in black and white (well 16 shades of grey). It looked very cardboardy.
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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#51  Postby Sendraks » Oct 17, 2016 10:52 am

The side-by-by screenshots of some of the original TOS footage and the re-mastered stuff using CGI, has the original stuff looking better. Hard to top a well made model + blue screen.
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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#52  Postby Mike_L » Oct 18, 2016 10:02 am

:this: :nod: Totally! :thumbup:
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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#53  Postby tuco » Feb 24, 2017 8:08 pm

Captain's log stardate -305849.6540778792:

Fuck you and fuck your moronic priorities!

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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#54  Postby tuco » Feb 24, 2017 8:47 pm

Its funny how we, hairless monkeys, appreciate shows like this one. Perhaps in couple of decades robots will be able to preform the same and much better, but it will not take away the will of hairless monkeys for perfection, whatever such perfection will become to be.
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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#55  Postby Agi Hammerthief » Mar 05, 2017 8:09 pm

tuco wrote:Not sure why communists did not like it too because Star Trek is pretty communist.

Because Star Trek showed what communism would look like if it worked and that the "communist" countries where really just petty dictatorships?
* my (modified) emphasis ( or 'interpretation' )

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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#56  Postby Ironclad » May 18, 2017 12:29 am

For Van Youngman - see you amongst the stardust, old buddy

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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#57  Postby Ironclad » May 18, 2017 12:29 am

Looks cool :)
For Van Youngman - see you amongst the stardust, old buddy

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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#58  Postby Thomas Eshuis » May 18, 2017 7:41 am

Ironclad wrote:Looks cool :)

Shits all over canon again. Unless they mean before the Abrahams Spock.
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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#59  Postby Ironclad » May 18, 2017 9:52 am

The Klingons do look JJish
For Van Youngman - see you amongst the stardust, old buddy

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Re: Star Trek: 50th Anniversary

#60  Postby lpetrich » May 18, 2017 11:10 am

I was unable to watch that video because of copyright restrictions. Is there any way to get around that, like officially-released stills?
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