I agree, except that I had no doubts. The only things Lynch has done that I didn't like were things he had no power over. I wasn't sure Coop would ever wake up, but I knew that it had purpose in the greater scheme of things.

Mac_Guffin wrote:The only things Lynch has done that I didn't like were things he had no power over.

You mean like casting giant teapots for roles where the actor had died?

No, I liked that lol. I was talking about Dune and the reveal of Laura Palmer's killer and the flawed shit in the middle of season 2 of Twin Peaks.
I thought Lynch handled the absence of certain characters really well. An electrical tree with a brain is a lot more interesting to see than a backwards talking guy in a red suit... as much as I liked Little Mike before he went batshit. That actor is fucked up.

I wonder if we will ever find out who Judy is. I always assumed it was Briggs, especially given his importance. There are also hints like that scene where Briggs is out of it, likening his name to Judy Garland.

I have to share something someone pointed out to me regarding FWWM and The Missing Pieces. The arm/Man from Another Place in the scene with Bob and the formica table says something about being descended from pure air. Well, Phillip Jeffries pops back up in Buenos Aires... which can be translated to "pure air".

What the shit are you guys talking about? Teapots? Backward talking people?

I have to start watching this.

It's really good if you like surrealism and other weird shit. I'd say watch the original two seasons, but expect a dip in quality in the middle of season 2. If you liked what came before it, stick through the bad shit to get to the end. The finale is... I don't even want to even vaguely allude to it.
Then watch the movie Fire Walk with Me. Then watch the new season. It's not a show with mass appeal, and it can be challenging to even someone who has watched the original run and film, so I wouldn't go in blind unless it's with someone who has watched the previous stuff. I've seen people who have, and they miss a lot of the context.
It's kind of a multi-genre show, sometimes parodying tropes, sometimes subverting them, and sometimes playing old tropes straight. The new season is heavier on the surrealism.

Optional: Read The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer after season 1, read The Secret History of Twin Peaks after the movie, and they're coming out with another book after this season is over in October I think.

Mac_Guffin wrote:No, I liked that lol. I was talking about Dune and the reveal of Laura Palmer's killer and the flawed shit in the middle of season 2 of Twin Peaks.

Oh, sorry. I thought you meant Season 3. Yes, much of Season 2 I'd prefer to pretend never happened.

I thought Lynch handled the absence of certain characters really well. An electrical tree with a brain is a lot more interesting to see than a backwards talking guy in a red suit... as much as I liked Little Mike before he went batshit. That actor is fucked up.

Yes, I heard he asked for some exorbitant fee to return. I hope he enjoyed being replaced by a Charlie Brown Christmas tree with a wad of chewing gum for a head.

I wonder if we will ever find out who Judy is. I always assumed it was Briggs, especially given his importance. There are also hints like that scene where Briggs is out of it, likening his name to Judy Garland.

Wizard of Oz certainly holds an important place in Lynchian lore.

I have to share something someone pointed out to me regarding FWWM and The Missing Pieces. The arm/Man from Another Place in the scene with Bob and the formica table says something about being descended from pure air. Well, Phillip Jeffries pops back up in Buenos Aires... which can be translated to "pure air".

There was also that brief, strange scene in Buenos Aires where some electrical box gets activated or whatever the fuck.

(BTW, don't get the impression that I objected to the creative re-casting of roles in "The Return." I kinda wish they did something like that with Donna Hayward in FWWM.)

Shrunk wrote:Wizard of Oz certainly holds an important place in Lynchian lore.

True, I think. Judy Garland in particular, perhaps.

If you strip away the surrealism, humour, mystery and disjointedness, I think you can find, in most of his stories, the fairly bald idea that while things might appear to be dandy on the surface of human life, there is a nasty truth underneath. It's about as dark a pov as dark can get.

What rescues the pov from falling into bleak nihilism, I think, is a sort of ultimate sense of and belief in redemption, which, I confess, I don't always understand, but which feels vaguely positive and genuine.

I say this without having seen any of the new series yet.

archibald wrote:What rescues the pov from falling into bleak nihilism, I think, is a sort of ultimate sense of and belief in redemption, which, I confess, I don't always understand, but which feels vaguely positive and genuine.

I say this without having seen any of the new series yet.

Yes, some of his films have a very conventional "good triumphs over evil" plot (Blue Velvet, Wild at Heart) even though things are very weird and dark in the process of getting there.

Whether that applies to Twin Peaks, we'll know in a few days.

@Shrunk
Have you seen Michael Anderson's Facebook? He's a bit of a conspiracy nut. He said Lynch raped his daughter and based Twin Peaks on that or something.

Speaking of Lynch and Oz, part of me wonder if this will end as all part of Audrey's coma dream. lol It seems hacky on the surface, but Lynch has managed to make things that would usually be hacky into art.

I'm not sure if the same thing could be done with Donna since those scenes are pretty straightforward. I hate recasting, but I kind of liked Moira playing her over Lara. Lara Flynn Boyle always rubbed me the wrong way, and I don't think she's a good actress.

@archibald
I would also add that the opposite is also true. He has shown that sometimes goodness is under a veil of the unexpected, like the Mitchum Brothers. I feel like the end of FWWM was also a happy ending, with Laura seeing the angel. Overall,I think Lynch loves the idea of duality.

Shrunk wrote:Yes, some of his films have a very conventional "good triumphs over evil" plot (Blue Velvet, Wild at Heart) even though things are very weird and dark in the process of getting there.

Yes, but sometimes I get the feeling that the happy endings and the redemptions come with a certain......caveat of fictional convenience, not entirely unlike the fortunate arrival of the adults at the end of William Golding's 'Lord of the Flies'. Yes, things have turned out ok, in this instance. In the story at least. Phew. We can sleep at night. This time.

Mac_Guffin wrote:@archibald
I would also add that the opposite is also true. He has shown that sometimes goodness is under a veil of the unexpected, like the Mitchum Brothers. I feel like the end of FWWM was also a happy ending, with Laura seeing the angel. Overall,I think Lynch loves the idea of duality.

Yes.

Duality.

And ambiguity.

Humans are conflicted. They have hearts of gold and darkness.

Mac_Guffin wrote:@Shrunk
Have you seen Michael Anderson's Facebook? He's a bit of a conspiracy nut. He said Lynch raped his daughter and based Twin Peaks on that or something.

No, I didn't know that. No surprise he wasn't cast this time, I guess.

Speaking of Lynch and Oz, part of me wonder if this will end as all part of Audrey's coma dream. lol It seems hacky on the surface, but Lynch has managed to make things that would usually be hacky into art.

However, he did use that already, in Mulholland Drive

I'm not sure if the same thing could be done with Donna since those scenes are pretty straightforward. I hate recasting, but I kind of liked Moira playing her over Lara. Lara Flynn Boyle always rubbed me the wrong way, and I don't think she's a good actress.

Yeah, I was just joking about that.

Confused... sad... but approve of the finale.

It feels like a deconstruction of storytelling and of Twin Peaks in general.

It's interesting when you google the English translation of the Chinese "jiāo dài" (Judy).

Mac_Guffin wrote:Confused... sad... but approve of the finale.

It feels like a deconstruction of storytelling and of Twin Peaks in general.

It's interesting when you google the English translation of the Chinese "jiāo dài" (Judy).

Hmmm.

The other interesting tidbit that slipped by me is the identity of Mrs. Chalfont.

Fun as it is putting these little clues together, though, I think it risks missing the main point. We have no right to expect a nice tidy accounting of all things, and that doesn't just apply to Twin Peaks.

Great conclusion to a great series.

I'm bracing for the "emperor is naked" comments and people jumping the gun with their frustrations about the end. I need to learn to not let that ruin my enjoyment. lol

The people that really bug me are the ones putting up petitions to convince Lynch do make a Season 4. He'll do it if it makes artistic sense, and if it doesn't you don't want him doing it.

Even if there is a season 4, it will likely not answer anything, at least not without presenting more questions. I'm surprised and baffled by people who are familiar with Lynch are surprised or disappointed that the ending is ambiguous.

Rationality is good for determining what's right in real life, but art is sometimes a different animal.

I don't generally have much time for fan theories, but there have been a couple of interesting observations based on close reading of the "text" as it were.

The first is from this scene which, at first, seemed meaningless and mundane. "Billy", of course had significance that only later became apparent (if still not very clear). But I completely missed how the customers are different between shots. Is that just sloppy continuity? Or would the other customers, the ones not there when the guy broke in and asked about Billy, have known exactly what he was talking about and responded with something other than silent bemusement? I also never noticed the eerie music running under "Sleepwalk".



Then there's this:



I've usually figured that Lynch and Frost construct their scenes according to a kind of dream logic, where atmosphere and visual/emotional content take precedence over linear story telling. But examples like this makes me wonder if they actually have a meticulously worked out narrative of intersecting time lines and alternate realities.