Amateurish ignorant denialism

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Amateurish ignorant denialism

#1  Postby Stein » Apr 17, 2020 2:29 am

Amateurish ignorant denialism is what is happening throughout the world right now, and President Trump is merely its most acute symptom. Too many in power have swallowed the hate/Kool-Aid reflexively aimed today at all specialists, researchers, professionals, etc., in those disciplines requiring the most rigorous kind of training and knowledge. That reflexive devaluation of such disciplines is the chief trend of our time. It has also become the most lethal, with the kind of John Wayne bullshit aimed at this crisis by the likes of President Trump and Prime Minister Johnson, before overflowing hospitals elsewhere throughout the globe slowly force the Trumps and the Johnsons to abandon their denialist filth. Unfortunately, medicine is merely the most pertinent of those disciplines at the current hour, as whole countries buckle under the devastating impact of ignorant goons deliberately ignoring urgent data generated by people whose only crime is more knowledge than most --

"Oh, how dare the specialists insult us and our shlongs by reminding us we don't know everything. OUR MANHOOD DEMANDS WE FIRST VENERATE JUNK PULLED OUT OF OUR ASS, BEFORE WE EVER RESPECT THE INSOLENCE OF THOSE WHO IMPOSE ON US A FUND OF KNOWLEDGE MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH ... THROUGH ... REEEEEESEARCH?? -- WHO NEEDS RESEARCH? THAT'S A DIRTY WORD. WHO NEEDS ANYTHING OTHER THAN OUR SHLONGS AND THE JUNK PULLED FROM OUR LORDLY ASSES??

B O W
D O W N!!!!!

WE KNOW WHAT'S WHAT. WHAT DO THE SPECIALISTS DO? THEY .... RESEARCH?? YUK! RESEARCH. YUK! DON'T INSULT US FURTHER!!"

Look at the Jesus mythers. Total denialism in the face of FRIGGING S-E-C-U-L-A-R PROFESSIONAL ACADEMIC PEER-VETTED RESEARCH, thank you. Axe-grinding anti-intellectual Kool-Aid swillers the whole kneejerk lot of them.

Trump is just an extension of this troll mentality writ large. That's why he's so comfortable on Twitter. Big surprise -- not.

Essentially, the mantra on the Web today is that we live in the here and now, thank you. So we know what's what, and we'll tell you what else we know. "So we know that the press should know its place, that the government is in charge, that the Sun rises in the West, that the world is really flat, that climate change is a hoax, that there was no Holocaust, that evolution never happened, that there was never a Jesus of Galilee, never any Shakespeare, never any moon shot, never any Constitution, never any racism, Emma Lazarus was really a dangerous Communist and Nazis are fine people. So cry me a river."

Lives are now lost to the greater glory of the bigoted anti-intellectual Jihadists. HEIL TRUMP! HEIL JOHNSON!

Trump is just one example of typical troll behavior in so many ways. It's obvious he's learned all his tactics -- gaslighting, demonizing all serious researchers, etc. -- from the denialists on the Web. Trash any serious surveys, research, etc., you possibly can, and don't ever follow up on anything that may bring further facts into greater focus. Deflect, prevaricate any way you can. Adopting these Web-troll tactics makes you a "real man".

There's another tactic he's learned from disinformation trolls on the Web: He often pretends that something he PLAINLY said in the FRIGGING RECENT PAST was never uttered at all! If it's brought up, he'll say something that deflects from the topic at hand, just as he does in this "According to who" exchange, and then quickly move on. There's nothing accidental to this any more than the tactics of web-disinformation-trolls are accidental. He FRIGGING DEPENDS on the short memories of his kneejerk followers just as disinformation-trolls on the web always depend on the "memories" of his camp followers on the Web to derail any exchange from something that might threaten to actually get anywhere near serious information.

Trump has learned his Web lessons well.

A key to Trump's staying power so far involves an aspect spotlighted in a Glasser article for The New Yorker. Trump has tapped into this sick powerful trend on the Internet that is effectively imposing a warped alternative reality everywhere --

"Trump has spent years devaluing and diminishing facts, experts, institutions, and science—the very things upon which we must rely in a crisis—and his default setting during the coronavirus outbreak has been to deny, delay, deflect, and diminish"

https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-f ... 0vvTXyqfVQ

This post is about amateurish ignorant denialism across the board, though chiefly on today's web and on social media in all walks of life. For one thing, trashing the serious work in academe, the medical/historical/scientific research etc., in so many different disciplines was one of the chief habits of 20th-century Fascism. Well, that's coming back now as a big part of the fanatical denialism on the web today. Denialist symptoms like that are, frankly, what I want us to thrash out here. Dedicated Ignorance, proselytizing ignorance (together with hate speech aimed at all specialized knowledge) is precisely what this OP is all about. I'm not interested in going down rabbit holes involving just Trump or just science. I want to know why, in an information age like this, vicious bigotry against any and all forms of specialized knowledge and downright orchestrated disinformation is all we see instead, in forums like this and elsewhere, again and again and again.

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Re: Amateurish ignorant denialism

#2  Postby Hermit » Apr 17, 2020 2:37 am

Posting the same rant for a third time does nothing to improve it.
God is the mysterious veil under which we hide our ignorance of the cause. - Léo Errera


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Re: Amateurish ignorant denialism

#3  Postby don't get me started » Apr 17, 2020 5:00 am

From the letters pages of the latest issue of Viz Comic:

" Hats off to my mate Jim. I had him down as a waster who has spent the last
ten years watching TV and writing shite on social media.
However, looking at his recent posts, it turns out that he's put his time
to good use and all these years he has been educating himself to
become an expert on respiratory diseases, psychology and supply chain logistics."
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Re: Amateurish ignorant denialism

#4  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 17, 2020 6:30 am

What's missing from the OP's rant is any kind of acknowledgement of how very, very many folks gobble up amateurish, ignorant denialism for breakfast, lunch and dinner. In itself, this omission is its own brand of denialism, deployed in order to find someone to feel superior to. There is fierce competition, even among bottom-feeders on the good and the true.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Amateurish ignorant denialism

#5  Postby Hermit » Apr 17, 2020 7:29 am

Cito di Pense wrote:What's missing from the OP's rant is any kind of acknowledgement of how very, very many folks gobble up amateurish, ignorant denialism for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Good point. Stein seems (yup, seems) more interested in raging against denialism than whence it came. Denialism is filthy, amateurish, ignorant, fanatical, and the two references to Kool-Aid implicitly bring along a multitude of other undesirable properties - presumably being everything that was wrong with Jonestown.

His OP would be a perfect fit for The Rant Thread, were it not for the fact that it is located in the Fun and Games section.
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Re: Amateurish ignorant denialism

#6  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 17, 2020 9:02 am

Here's a fascinating rejoinder to charges of "amateurish ignorant denialism":

https://www.quora.com/What-dont-most-liberals-realize

The reply by Peter Kruger, second or third from the top is long; anyone trying to read it may tire before finishing, and it may or may not illustrate what most liberals don't realize (at least in Trump's domain), but there's a heckuva lot they don't recognize in favor of calling other people stupid.

About current Republicanism:

they have an advantage here: a win for them is to do nothing. Their whole schtick is “do absolutely nothing new and do a lot less of what you’re already doing” and they’ve sold it incredibly well. Whether it’s catchy bits like Reagan’s “welfare queen” or the line “government is the problem,” Republicans have been doing an excellent job of selling the idea that government is not an instrument of the people for doing good for society.


This "doing nothing" business should not be taken literally, not this week. Doing nothing is also undoing stuff that liberals try to do. Calling that "amateurish ignorant denialism" misses the point of how clever it is to make doing stuff look like doing nothing.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Amateurish ignorant denialism

#7  Postby Hermit » Apr 17, 2020 11:10 am

Cito di Pense wrote:Here's a fascinating rejoinder to charges of "amateurish ignorant denialism":

https://www.quora.com/What-dont-most-liberals-realize

The reply by Peter Kruger, second or third from the top is long; anyone trying to read it may tire before finishing, and it may or may not illustrate what most liberals don't realize (at least in Trump's domain)...

Kruger's contribution is a bit of an eye opener for me. Until now I could not understand why the "deplorables" voted for someone most likely to govern against their interests.

The vast majority of voters has not benefited from any government for decades. The rising tide has not lifted their boat for decades.

Image

So voters decided, fuck it, let's burn government down. The less of it, the better.

Trump also promised paradise on earth. That's what politicians do. But voters have stopped believing promises. Trump promised less government. Less of the government - Democrat or Republican - that had failed them for so long. He was worth voting for because he was neither Republican nor Democrat. He was an iconoclast who had parasitically latched on to the Republican party machinery. He won the Republican primaries basically because Republicans had revolted against the run-of-the-mill Republican candidates and voted for the brazen outsider instead.

Now Biden promises more of the same shit that has failed to lift the voters' boats. Unless those voters realise by November how much worse off they will be because of Trump, Biden will lose spectacularly.

Not that Sanders stood a chance, had he won the primaries. In the first place - as far as those voters who really are deplorable are concerned - he offered failed Democratic policy+. More regulation, more taxation, more government. As if that were not enough, he would not only bear the brunt of the reactionary media who accuse him of being a communist, but the majority of the main stream media, being owned by billionaires and therefore economically neoliberal, would pile on as well.

Once you become aware of the reasons underlying the massive support for Trump you will have difficulties invoking "amateurish ignorant denialism".
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Re: Amateurish ignorant denialism

#8  Postby felltoearth » Apr 17, 2020 11:32 am

I would call it doing the wrong thing for all the right reasons. Ignorance plays into that and the GOP strategy.
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Re: Amateurish ignorant denialism

#9  Postby Stein » Apr 18, 2020 2:17 am

Hermit wrote:Posting the same rant for a third time does nothing to improve it.

Actually, it has. Finally, this discussion has focused on the real question rather than tangents: the addiction far too many webbies have to crank "knowledge", to hate speech against specialists, to lifting up plain ignorance. Thanks, guys.
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