Are we messing up our kids with over protection

Early sexuality being repressed = later issues

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Are we messing up our kids with over protection

#1  Postby Macdoc » Jan 07, 2017 5:03 pm

This is a spin from the pedophile thread that has descended into chaos

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The last line caught my eye.

In trying to protect kids .....since they are sexually oriented very early in this society both mentally and biologically...are we at the same time suppressing them leading to issues later on as that natural arc of hominid early sexual play is disrupted...instilled fear of sexual predators, disease, pregnancy, disapproval, police, even social shaming and social media issues.

Clearly the kids are playing and experimenting online as well ......are we growing suppressed kids.....I mean look at the insane drop in birth rate and the in some cases complete lack of interest in sex

Japan's virgins: Why are 40% of millennials virgins? - CNN.com
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/20/asia/japa ... s-virgins/
Why are almost half of Japan's millennials still virgins? By Emiko Jozuka ... Updated 4:02 AM ET, Tue September 20, 2016 ... Japan's 40-year-old virgins? 02 :21 .


.is this phenomena somehow connected to pediophilia and instilled fear or perhaps early sexuality getting channeled to a too structured childhood providing predators, even family etc opportunity :scratch:
Just noodling here

Here is a further bit from this excellent read..
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The world has moved the age of permission up while biological maturity has moved down.
Girls have babies earlier and earlier yet a 15 year old boy or girl is considered a child under law in most regions....

Fashion and social media, Tots and Tiaras shows moves sexuality earlier and earlier .....yet sexual play among peers sees less and less opportunity as the kids lives are so structured as to preclude playing doctor in the bushes and in some cases tweens and early tweens can face criminal charges especially if their play extends to online activities.

Perhaps many are thinking that sex is just too much bother/risk for the limited rewards.

Did the hunter gatherers have more wisdom in this. My sense is that kids find away around the restrictive environment and also that predators channel the natural curiousity and flat out horniness ...girls and boys ( in the wider sense up to mid teens )...to their own ends.

I mean no question there is a fair bit of near peer predation by boys in schools..with social media seriously compounding that...to the point of suicide in some cases.

What kind of long term nightmare is happening?...I mean Japan's never had sex numbers are simply mind boggling.

Perhaps hunter gatherers had a better handle on this ...of course "it takes a village" comes into play as well.
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Re: Are we messing up our kids with over protection

#2  Postby I'm With Stupid » Jan 08, 2017 6:04 pm

I think one biological factor that goes throughout all of this is the simple fact that girls become sexually attractive and basically start to advertise themselves as sexually available at a time when they can't reliably carry a baby to term. Yes the 14 year-old girl who's posing on Instagram in full duck face with her midriff showing is technically capable of getting pregnant, but that same girl in a society without access to any medical care would have a tough time surviving the pregnancy. I would argue that this is where the intense protectionist instinct regarding young female relatives comes from. What we've done in modern society is formalised this protectionism with laws around age of consent (which might technically apply to both sexes equally, but you only have to look at society's reactions when these laws are broken to know who it's really for) and child maintenance. Perhaps in more tight-knit tribal societies, where the father will be likely contributing to the upbringing of the child anyway, they may have a slightly more relaxed attitude to their daughter getting pregnant. Although I suspect if you introduced a man from outside the tribe, who would immediately fuck off after getting her pregnant, they'd have the same violently protectionist instincts as most other societies in the world.

Japan is an interesting example, because if anything, they actually fetishize child sexuality, or certainly a weird and distorted version of it. But from what I've read, actually sexuality is still pretty taboo in Japan.
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Re: Are we messing up our kids with over protection

#3  Postby don't get me started » Jan 12, 2017 5:38 am

I'm With Stupid wrote:

Japan is an interesting example, because if anything, they actually fetishize child sexuality, or certainly a weird and distorted version of it. But from what I've read, actually sexuality is still pretty taboo in Japan.


I wouldn't say it's taboo, rather, it's just different and oftentimes discreet and baffling if you don't know what you are dealing with.
(Perhaps western fetishization of Japanese sexuality is an interesting counter issue. Bring up the topic and see how long it is before someone mentions used schoolgirl panties in vending machines...something I have NEVER seen in my 20 plus years here.)

Japan being a non Abrahamic religion country, some of the attitudes to sexuality here are quite refreshing compared to some western ways.
For example, in Japanese expressions there is no conflation of sex with dirt, filth or pollution, as there is in the English language. In English a 'dirty old man' is usually a reference to someone's sexual attitudes, not specifically their personal hygiene. A dirty weekend is nothing to do with lack of bathing facilities. How easily 'filthy' collocates with 'whore' in English.

There are words such as ECHI and SUKEBE which are pejorative of someone's sexual attitude or conduct, (perhaps 'lewd' would be a translation) but there are no common expressions connecting dirt with sex, no real way of collocating KITANAI (dirty) with sexual things.

Slightly tangential to the OP is another cultural aspect of Japanese life.
Communal nude bathing is widely practiced here. Trips to hot springs or spa like bathing centers are very popular. Although usually segregated, there are some mixed ones.
But even for unisex Onsens (hot spring resorts), it was a shock to my Anglo sensibilities the first time I went and everyone just got naked and walked around. I realized how my own cultural background had colored me to thinking of communal nude bathing as somehow shameful or embarrassing.

Connected to this is the habit of Japanese parents to share bath time with their young children. Mum, dad and the little uns all get in together. ( Me and my 4 year old son and 1 year old daughter all get in together...it's great fun)
On a TV program discussing foreigners attitudes to Japanese culture, some foreigners expressed critical views especially of fathers bathing with their children. It was felt to be inappropriate that adult males should be in the bath with children. (The Japanese guests reckoned that seven or eight was the cut off point of joint baths, especially father daughter, but anything before puberty was allowable.)
The western guests seemed not to be able to help themselves but conflate nudity with sexuality.
Some western attitudes towards sex, sexuality, the body and nudity seem bizarre and outlandish when viewed from the outside.
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Re: Are we messing up our kids with over protection

#4  Postby Fallible » Jan 12, 2017 8:46 am

To be fair, we took baths with our daughter up until about that age, and so do many other parents here.
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Re: Are we messing up our kids with over protection

#5  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 12, 2017 9:02 am

Fallible wrote:To be fair, we took baths with our daughter up until about that age, and so do many other parents here.

Same here, but he does have a point that onsen culture, if I may call it that, stretches that concept further than here.
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Re: Are we messing up our kids with over protection

#6  Postby Fallible » Jan 12, 2017 9:12 am

Fair enough. :thumbup:
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Re: Are we messing up our kids with over protection

#7  Postby I'm With Stupid » Jan 12, 2017 10:17 pm

don't get me started wrote:I wouldn't say it's taboo, rather, it's just different and oftentimes discreet and baffling if you don't know what you are dealing with.
(Perhaps western fetishization of Japanese sexuality is an interesting counter issue. Bring up the topic and see how long it is before someone mentions used schoolgirl panties in vending machines...something I have NEVER seen in my 20 plus years here.)

Well to be fair, there's a lot more than rumours of pantie vending machines that hint at Japan's attitude to the sexualisation of children. A common manga image of a sexy female is someone with a idealised adult female body, but quite clearly more often than not, the face of a much younger girl, and the voice that might as well be a toddler. And these are images that you have to go looking for in obscure shops, they're plastered on the side of everything. But if you do go to comic book shops (again, not specifically adult stores), you'll see cartoon child pornography displayed alongside regular pornography. Another interesting genre of manga is that depicting gay teenage male relationships, which is apparently fairly popular with adult women. I'm obviously not trying to suggest that these things are particularly widespread or mainstream (although far more accepted than they would be in any Western country, I suspect), but it's undoubtedly true that underage sexuality is something that is considered an acceptable topic for both art and pornography in Japan in a way it isn't elsewhere.

And this is a fairly new development in the West. There are plenty of films in the 70s (live action films) featuring scenes of sexual activities between teenagers. Brooke Shields appeared naked in a film in a vaguely sexualised scene at the age of 12. There was also an Italian film I forget the name of that features simulated sex scenes between underage actors. Nowadays, a film that had graphic sex scenes depicting underage sex would probably be controversial even if the actors were over 18.
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Re: Are we messing up our kids with over protection

#8  Postby Macdoc » Jan 13, 2017 1:23 am

Anonymous was interesting in that respect ..tho certainly not graphic ...it left nothing on the table regarding knowing intent of the bishop....

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and Portman is so tiny it was effective

.......

Perhaps in more tight-knit tribal societies, where the father will be likely contributing to the upbringing of the child anyway, they may have a slightly more relaxed attitude to their daughter getting pregnant


The author of Unbound actual claims hunter gatherers had little or no non-common property so were relaxed about youngsters sex play or who the father was but when societies settled...property rights and inheritance became factors and rigid curtailing of romps in meadow ensued. In addition then the value of virginity became entrenched.

Wasn't it in The Crown Elizabeth complained she didn't know anything about sex ??

....

Brooke ....vaguely sexual??? ....painted like a courtesan and sitting naked in a bath !!!...blatantly sexual
Brooke also played the coming of age sexuality in Blue Lagoon.
..

But from what I've read, actually sexuality is still pretty taboo in Japan.

The land of Love Hotels??.

Actually it's land of massive virginity these days.
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