My mom still complains about being "out of a job" if I politely refuse her help.
I'm sure that's part of it, but she's had a really tough life by anyone's measure, and clinical depression on top of that.

Evolving wrote:Feeling you're no longer relevant. I've been thinking about that several times recently: wondering what it's going to be like when my small one is grown up and doesn't need me any more, or at least not like she does now. Frankly I'm worried about it. It's a bit stupid, because I've always been aware that this is, so to speak, typical mum syndrome: not knowing what to do with yourself when the children are out of the house; and I used to think that it couldn't happen to me, (a) because I'm forewarned and (b) because I have plenty of other things in my life. And yet here I am: my child really is the centre and hub of my life, it feels like being her mum is what I'm supposed to do, what I'm for, and I wonder what I'm going to think I'm for when she's gone.

This is one reason I didn't make the effort to get a university degree until I was mature enough, and disciplined enough to give it the attention it deserved. When I started I had one child in high school, and another trying different things to see where he fitted in. The thing is he doesn't. His particular mental issues result from being oxygen-deprived at birth and then several instances of seizures as a small child, leaving him with brain damage. However, It didn't leave him without the intellect to study. So he did various courses, first in education which gave him a job for 20 years before a breakdown from the pressure of trying to fit in, caused him to be declared disabled, so he can't work. Now he studies for fun. He's just finished a law degree, which he'll never use, but it's nice to have it hanging on the wall. Pretty much like my degree that I've never used, except to study the Bible, and then spending almost a decade writing a manuscript debunking it, book by book. This is what I mean for the first 15 years of my retirement, I was studying, and then writing. This gave me something to do when the nest was empty.

Now I just mess with people on Quora.

hackenslash wrote:

UncertainSloth wrote:i'd love to reply more but i'm in a terrible mental place at the moment

This. Wish I were in a place to comment, but this is a bridge too far for me at the moment.

You dear, dear man, I cannot begin to even attempt to say anything other than to say how knowing you has encouraged me to learn. What I've learnt by knowing you, and Cali, has made me respected, and is even the cause of some of the meanness I've had to deal with from ignorant boomers, who tell me straight out that I show off, and "think I'm so clever" because I understand the reasons why belief in creation is ridiculous.

Being told "you think you know everything" at my age, while it annoys me enough too make me respond with "don't be ridiculous, no one can know everything" it also gives me a frisson of pleasure that I've managed to shut down someone I would've respected as "better educated", or with more power because they were the people who were my bosses when I was young and ignorant. You two have removed my ignorance, made me able to join in discussions about the Big Bang, and new ideas about what may have happened before, and I have you, and Cali, and now other people I've met through having met the two of you, to thank for this. It's made my children respect me enough to tell me that even though my health is failing they say "there's definitely nothing wrong with your brain, you're still the cleverest boomer I've ever met", which is a compliment coming from people who've been in academia for 20 and more years.

There's a man I've come to know as a friend, who was my eldest's boss when he was at university working in the computer science's Apple lab. They became friends over the 10+ years he worked there while he was studying for his Masters in Philosophy, and they set up a help group on FB, which is where I met him. When they handed it over to me to run while the Professor moved around the world gathering other qualifications, and is now something of an authority on Covid-19. and my son was being kept busy finishing his PhD and raising two babies, my knowledge of all things Mac, got me that interest that I've now left, simply because I can't deal with racists and people arguing that I should be able to read and write Afrikaans having lived here all my life.

Learning about Covid, certainly more than the average ignorant boomer who says "we're all vaccinated, we can take off our masks" makes me able to explain to them why they shouldn't. And they listen to me because I speak from a point of being informed, and you were the stimulus that made me want to become a more interesting, and informed old person.

So, Hackenslash, if there was a god and if there are reasons for our lives, then perhaps you were put in my path to help me become what I am now, a far more interesting old person, and an annoyance to my extended family to the point that they'll do anything to avoid having to speak to me, let alone having to visit me. So I thank you, can't say enough how much I value what you've done to change my life. And I thank you for that.

The_Piper wrote:My mom still complains about being "out of a job" if I politely refuse her help.
I'm sure that's part of it, but she's had a really tough life by anyone's measure, and clinical depression on top of that.

I'm sorry to hear that. Everyone's depression and how they deal with it is different, so I can't offer advice, and I don't like to do that anyway even if I see what will help. It helps me when my son comes to talk to me, just chat about the book he's writing, or some new "mod" in the current "kill everyone" game he's playing. And parents do worry about their kids not having a job. I know I worry about my son, but he can't be employed. When he's told he has to wear a suit it's pretty obvious he's at the height of discomfort, and anyway my kids look silly in suits. They're not corporate types who dress to impress.

Talk to her, get her to open up about the hard things she's been through. I know that removing the veil of "a perfect life" about myself helped me get through my last breakdown. When I was insane with chemical imbalances in my brain fighting to kill me, I blurted out what I knew my kids didn't know to two of my sons. They didn't realise just how traumatised I was, and how hiding in a cupboard was the only way I could escape the horror of the PTSD I'd been hiding for over 60 years. Getting it out, speaking of the violence made it clearer to the two younger ones, and now the older ones know too, what the reason for my anger was all about, and why I behaved the way I have when having to face confrontations. Now, having let the demons out, and boy there are some really horrible demons that don't plague my sleep anymore, while it didn't "fix" me, it did make me a nicer person.

Explain to her about your situation, she probably doesn't understand how not having a "job" keeps you fed. If there's one thing I've learnt in the last year, it's that secrets are a lot better if they're told rather than left to fester and eventually cause you to want to just die so that remembering them will stop hurting. I don't know if that makes sense.

Agrippina wrote:

The_Piper wrote:My mom still complains about being "out of a job" if I politely refuse her help.
I'm sure that's part of it, but she's had a really tough life by anyone's measure, and clinical depression on top of that.

I'm sorry to hear that. Everyone's depression and how they deal with it is different, so I can't offer advice, and I don't like to do that anyway even if I see what will help. It helps me when my son comes to talk to me, just chat about the book he's writing, or some new "mod" in the current "kill everyone" game he's playing. And parents do worry about their kids not having a job. I know I worry about my son, but he can't be employed. When he's told he has to wear a suit it's pretty obvious he's at the height of discomfort, and anyway my kids look silly in suits. They're not corporate types who dress to impress.

Talk to her, get her to open up about the hard things she's been through. I know that removing the veil of "a perfect life" about myself helped me get through my last breakdown. When I was insane with chemical imbalances in my brain fighting to kill me, I blurted out what I knew my kids didn't know to two of my sons. They didn't realise just how traumatised I was, and how hiding in a cupboard was the only way I could escape the horror of the PTSD I'd been hiding for over 60 years. Getting it out, speaking of the violence made it clearer to the two younger ones, and now the older ones know too, what the reason for my anger was all about, and why I behaved the way I have when having to face confrontations. Now, having let the demons out, and boy there are some really horrible demons that don't plague my sleep anymore, while it didn't "fix" me, it did make me a nicer person.

Explain to her about your situation, she probably doesn't understand how not having a "job" keeps you fed. If there's one thing I've learnt in the last year, it's that secrets are a lot better if they're told rather than left to fester and eventually cause you to want to just die so that remembering them will stop hurting. I don't know if that makes sense.

I dress for comfort too. I did work the counter at the post office and had to wear a tie, which sucked but wasn't a dealbreaker. My mom has issues with her sisters similar to what you describe with yours. It was a traumatic home life growing up, and lifelong vision/hearing issues that make her life challenging. The upbringing is still shaping her behavior today. She still ruminates on the failed marriage with my father as well.
I know what you mean about not giving advice, I tend to feel the same way. She's talked to me since I was a teen about countless traumas growing up that are really difficult for me to hear. It doesn't seem to help her much as she's still repeating the stories to me now. She's been dropped by multiple therapists too, but I'm unsure why. Despite all that, she has always been a kind and loving mother. Lucky me!
You mentioning ptsd, it must be a similar thing that she deals with. She doesn't share your love of technology, it's like she was dropped into 2021 from 1921 in that department. She's still trying to figure out a vcr.
I'm sorry you have to deal with those burdens Mrs. Aggie.

The_Piper wrote:[/snip]
I dress for comfort too. I did work the counter at the post office and had to wear a tie, which sucked but wasn't a dealbreaker. My mom has issues with her sisters similar to what you describe with yours. It was a traumatic home life growing up, and lifelong vision/hearing issues that make her life challenging. The upbringing is still shaping her behavior today. She still ruminates on the failed marriage with my father as well.

It doesn't leave you.

I kept it blocked off for over 7 decades, just not talking about it but having it shape the person it made me. I made marriages that perpetuated the behaviour off the people who raised me, until I met Barry, 36 years ago. When I first met him I couldn't understand why he was alone, and by alone, i mean not speaking to anyone most weekends, except for the people at checkouts where he bought his food. He would go home on Friday, and then only interact with people again on Monday. I didn't understand why he was alone because he was such a great guy. Then I discovered his OCD, and I realised what the problem was. I can deal with that because of my own need for order, so it didn't bother me. Meeting him changed my life, and my behaviour. I am definitely a much nicer person because of him. The PTSD was blocked off, and I got on with living taking in my abusive mother, and a sister who is now completely off-her-head insane in a place of safety, threatened by her only two surviving children with abandonment should she do a runner again. I haven't spoken to her in years, simply because I refuse to tolerate the abuse at my age. I've also dropped so-called friends who abused my desire to be liked, because I allowed it. The breakdown earlier this year brought out all the hidden anger, pain, self-destructiveness I've hidden away, and now I can spend the rest of my life just resting and living without a need to get approval and acknowledgement of my right to be alive.

I know what you mean about not giving advice, I tend to feel the same way. She's talked to me since I was a teen about countless traumas growing up that are really difficult for me to hear. It doesn't seem to help her much as she's still repeating the stories to me now. She's been dropped by multiple therapists too, but I'm unsure why. Despite all that, she has always been a kind and loving mother. Lucky me!

You are fortunate that she appreciates you, but then she has good material there. You're easy to like. You are a kind and loving person. I wonder why therapy didn't help her, but then on the other hand it didn't help me either, until it did because I broke down so badly I couldn't move I can understand the difficulty of having to hear what her life was about, my kids are more tolerant now too, because they've heard the truth I've kept from them and that I should've taken to a therapist years ago, but II just thought if I made up a story of a happy childhood, they wouldn't carry the pain into the next generation. It was a mistake, I should've let it out long ago, and let them know what it was really like, but I wanted to protect them, didn't want them to know of the violence that made me a frightened rabbit always seeking approval. Now I don't need approval, and it's liberating. I am who I am, and if anyone is offended that I say no, or refuses to speak to them, I don't owe anyone an explanation. It pains me that Barry's whole family have slipped into the rabbit hole of the JWs, especially now his favourite sister died, and the ones who weren't in the cult have been sucked in. It leaves him alone, the patriarch of his really large family but without the respect due to him because he's not one of them and their cult. But he's also the patriarch of my family, and they're all crazy about him. He's their dad, something he's rather proud of if I can judge from hearing him advise the youngest about saving for his retirement yesterday, and listening to what the "boy" is doing to prepare for retirement by the time he's 50. He says he doesn't have to impress anyone with wanting to own great wealth and work until he drops. He only wants enough to not have to work or to not go broke should he live to 80. It was nice hearing them chat about it.

You mentioning ptsd, it must be a similar thing that she deals with. She doesn't share your love of technology, it's like she was dropped into 2021 from 1921 in that department. She's still trying to figure out a vcr.
I'm sorry you have to deal with those burdens Mrs. Aggie.

It is hard to grasp new technology. I must admit I'm starting to battle now to understand all the fantastic new ideas popping up around me. I can't afford to replace my toys, I have to rely on gifts from my kids, when they replace older models for new ones. So I manage with what I have. I still have the family videos on a hard drive. I should upload them to the cloud so they're safe from technology redundancy, but there's a lot of gigs to pay for there, which will involve my having to cull some duplicate photos and rearrange the folders so yes, if I live long enough I'm going to have to make a plan, but I need to have a chat with my most tech-savvy son about that, and that can only happen when it's safe to visit again without wearing masks. So I get that it would be hard. Maybe start with teaching her to use that VCR.

I'm actually fine now. It's wonderful to not wake up in a state of depression every day, wishing the day was over so I could just sleep. For now, that's a big win. The aches and pains, needing help getting my slippers to stay on my feet, I have helpers who don't mind doing that for me. Last summer my youngest got the bathroom changed for me so I can just take a step up into the shower, a great help rather than having to climb over the side of the bath. Little things but that make a difference to managing to be independent. If only I would learn too stop moving heavy furniture around to clean - that would make a big difference to my pain issues, and help my weak muscles. But my independence is important to me, so I just wait for the aching muscle to heal and then forget the next time something falls behnd the fridge.

Excellent ...glad you are feeling up
..even I'm a bit future shocked at times and I'm in the business. I also get the hand-me-down phones from kids.

Word of caution....Please make sure you have two or more copies of those family photos and videos on hard drives.
Drives are so cheap these days and any drive over 3 years old should be replaced tho can be used as a redundant storage.
Stick with Toshiba/Hitachi for externals preferably - don't rely on one large drive.

Amazon storage is pretty cheap for photo storage if you want family and friends to be able to access.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/voorENZ9iLvcuH2a8
It has nice editing tools as well and you can control access.
I think the first 5 GB is free.

Aggie you might enjoy this re Diana Rigg

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2021/ ... gar-wright

Macdoc wrote:Excellent ...glad you are feeling up
..even I'm a bit future shocked at times and I'm in the business. I also get the hand-me-down phones from kids.

Word of caution....Please make sure you have two or more copies of those family photos and videos on hard drives.
Drives are so cheap these days and any drive over 3 years old should be replaced tho can be used as a redundant storage.
Stick with Toshiba/Hitachi for externals preferably - don't rely on one large drive.

Amazon storage is pretty cheap for photo storage if you want family and friends to be able to access.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/voorENZ9iLvcuH2a8
It has nice editing tools as well and you can control access.
I think the first 5 GB is free.

The trouble is that if you store in the cloud you also need to have a copy on your computer. I tried that but then my little Mac is so small and storage inhibited that I can only keep my music and book collection on it. I could use DropBox too, but that also wants a copy on the computer. I'll have a chat with my computer geek son, he'll find a solution.

Macdoc wrote:Aggie you might enjoy this re Diana Rigg

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2021/ ... gar-wright

Thank you so much for that. She reminds me of my sister who died of cancer at the age of 62 in 2000. I wrote about her just now, and I'm going to post it here. She was exactly like this. Her name was also Diane, with an 'e'. She took it for her own because her birth name made her sound like something out of a bad western, she said.

This made me think of my sister who died at the age of 62 in 2000. She would've loved being old and seeing her beautiful great-granddaughters, and one great-grandson. She was always full of life, never negative, even when she was battling towards the end she asked for reading material so she could learn something new before she died. I lent her a book about Napoleon, which she read l the way through in her bed at hospice. My youngest used to go with me every day to visit her, and one weekend shortly before she died, she, and the next eldest, and I sat up watching Kelly's Heroes in my bed, while Barry went to sleep outside in the caravan. I can't hear the song, or see a now-older Donald Sutherland without thinking about that night and how she promised me that if there was something after death, she'd find a way to let me know. Now 21 years later, I miss her, but I never got any messages from beyond. It would be really great to have her with me now, in her 80s, still with the hairdos and makeup, beautifully dressed with a glass of wine in one hand, and a cigarette in the other. When we told her to stop smoking she said "I'm going to die of cancer anyway, I enjoy it and I will until I don't anymore." She asked us to bring her cake, she took one bite, saiid it tasted like heaven, but couldn't eat more. She asked for a beer, so Barry took one to her. She only wanted one sip. Dearest Di, so sadly missed now still decades later.

I loved Lady Olenna. I've used her as an avatar pic. "Let the grown women speak". I loved that put down.

Glad you liked it. Maybe you should go back to Lady Olenna

Two of these should work
http://www.walsoftcomputers.com/hdd-wdb ... k-eesn.asp

One to be connected all the time the other to be hidden. Start with 1 if two are too much. 899r not bad
You might find for less online but stick with Toshiba or WD ..skip Seagate
Do photos first as they take up little space compared to videos
Amazon photos does not require a copy of on your machine but might require an Amazon Prime subscription.

Agrippina wrote:The trouble is that if you store in the cloud you also need to have a copy on your computer. I tried that but then my little Mac is so small and storage inhibited that I can only keep my music and book collection on it. I could use DropBox too, but that also wants a copy on the computer. I'll have a chat with my computer geek son, he'll find a solution.

You don't need much storage in the computer. External drives connected via USB will do the job. Something like Macdoc suggested, though 2 or 4 terabytes might be a better size. They are quite cheap. I bought a 4TB Western Digital drive for A$150 a few years ago, and an 8TB drive for A$250 a little later to back my 12TB NAS to. (The NAS is terribly underutilised, containing just 2TB worth of files at the moment, but I like the elbow room.) What I like about computer equipment is that it keeps getting cheaper and better all the time. My first hard drive could store 70 megabytes and cost me 700 bucks. Two years later I replaced it with a 320 megabyte drive which set me back $230. Then came a couple of gigabyte sized disks. Now we are well into terabyte territory.

Prices have plateaued for a few months now due to the chip shortage, but this will change. Chip manufacturers are spending many billions of dollars ramping up their production capacities. Shop around. Online stores are quite competitive, so prices are usually very similar, but every now and again one of them will have a special offer on what you need. Ebay makes for a good start. There is no risk if you stick to vendors who have sold through that site for a number of years and an approval rating of 98.5% or above.

Macdoc wrote:Glad you liked it. Maybe you should go back to Lady Olenna

Two of these should work
http://www.walsoftcomputers.com/hdd-wdb ... k-eesn.asp

One to be connected all the time the other to be hidden. Start with 1 if two are too much. 899r not bad
You might find for less online but stick with Toshiba or WD ..skip Seagate
Do photos first as they take up little space compared to videos
Amazon photos does not require a copy of on your machine but might require an Amazon Prime subscription.

I bought a new hard drive recently, a Toshiba, similar to that one, so I wouldn't have to deal with cables and electricity when the lights go off for hours while our supplier is load-shedding. I've got it plugged in now to see what's on it. Mostly movies. I'll move those to another of the hard drives I have, then reformat it, before moving my photo albums there, then uploading them to the cloud from that source. I'll see if that works. Thanks for the advice.

Just on the "Olenna" thing. Depression wasn't the reason I started this thread. I'll explain.

When I studied nursing 50 years ago, psychology and care of the elderly was part of the training. We did geriatric nursing as part of the course and I completed the full course on that subject, before my dad messed up my chances of ever getting into medicine through the back door of a nursing qualification. While learning about nursing the elderly, we also learnt to recognise the signs of approaching death and how to deal with end of life symptoms. But in this modern world where everything is hung out to dry, no on will talk about this subject. The thing is that I know what I'm seeing, not so much in myself yet, except for short term memory problems (I lose words for example) and falling asleep if I'm not kept doing something that stimulates my brain to work. Which is why I got the PC and the games. I am recognising the signs in my husband, and I won't go into that, it's a little personal. I'm going to need some serious emotional support as we go through the next part of my life, but as I said, no one wants to talk about the one thing we all have to deal with at some time, so I thought I'd come here and open the conversation for people who, like me, know that there is nothing out there beyond this, and are OK with that. At the time I was depressed but the breakdown that took me down a couple of months ago, probably because of the fear I went through with Barry's sister's death and him having Covid, is all better now. For the moment. I'm not saying I'm "cured" of the depression because you're inclined to slip back into it when bad things happen, and I wanted a space where I could speak about his progress and get support rather than "platitudes" which is all people do when you're trying to explain that you could see what's coming - you know the "don't think negative thoughts" brigade. As if you can just put negative thoughts aside by thinking "happy thoughts". It's like when you add anxiety into the mix, and ADD, and OCD, and people tell you to just "leave the mess you'll only have to do it again next week" and "stop reorganising the kitchen" and "don't think about the things you can't change". As If there's actually a switch "today I'll be happy" you can turn on because they are uncomfortable with you worrying about whatever the particular obsession of the day is. Anyway, I'm in a good place myself now. It makes it a lot easier to deal with having to tell off someone who won't let me use the exit door of a store to help him with a card and a card reader at the till point while the cashier doesn't understand his developing dementia is making taping the card a difficult thing for him to figure out. This happened last week. I just left the full trolley at the door and when she tried to stop me, I told her to try, my husband needed me and her authority didn't override my need to give him the help he needed.

He was bewildered. He knew which card to use - remembered that I told him that, but then when faced with a different card reader than what he's used to, he stood there panicking and helpless, about to just leave what he was buying rather than deal with something he didn't understand. So this is why I need this thread. I'll get the support I'm going to need from the intelligent people who've known me for years, and who'll offer me help, advice, support etc before I break down because he had a stroke while arguing with a cashier in a supermarket over a simple thing like a special offer that's expired, and he doesn't know what the date is.

Hermit wrote:

Agrippina wrote:The trouble is that if you store in the cloud you also need to have a copy on your computer. I tried that but then my little Mac is so small and storage inhibited that I can only keep my music and book collection on it. I could use DropBox too, but that also wants a copy on the computer. I'll have a chat with my computer geek son, he'll find a solution.

You don't need much storage in the computer. External drives connected via USB will do the job. Something like Macdoc suggested, though 2 or 4 terabytes might be a better size. They are quite cheap. I bought a 4TB Western Digital drive for A$150 a few years ago, and an 8TB drive for A$250 a little later to back my 12TB NAS to. (The NAS is terribly underutilised, containing just 2TB worth of files at the moment, but I like the elbow room.) What I like about computer equipment is that it keeps getting cheaper and better all the time. My first hard drive could store 70 megabytes and cost me 700 bucks. Two years later I replaced it with a 320 megabyte drive which set me back $230. Then came a couple of gigabyte sized disks. Now we are well into terabyte territory.

Prices have plateaued for a few months now due to the chip shortage, but this will change. Chip manufacturers are spending many billions of dollars ramping up their production capacities. Shop around. Online stores are quite competitive, so prices are usually very similar, but every now and again one of them will have a special offer on what you need. Ebay makes for a good start. There is no risk if you stick to vendors who have sold through that site for a number of years and an approval rating of 98.5% or above.

Yes, thanks. I've got my iTb wireless drive connected now. I'm going to try uploading my pics from our trip a month ago to the cloud in a folder not connected to Photos, and then see if that works. See if it whines when I try to look at the pics in the cloud. on my iPad.

OK that seems to work with the external drive removed. I can see the folder on my iPad, and the full-sized images. I can get 2Tb of storage space for R150 a month, that $10, not a lot of money. I'll give it a little thought whether to do this, it sounds like a good idea but is going to involve a few weeks of culling duplicates and dumping irrelevant videos. The things I find to do to keep my ageing mind busy!

Just had a chat with my son, he says to upload to the cloud via Safari and the webpage rather than to iCloud Drive which leaves a copy on the computer. If you do it to the cloud direct from the hard drive, it will have to download the pic to your computer should you want to see it. Great. Now I know what I have to do.

Animavore wrote:In my life I've had quite a few people die on me on the last couple of years and I feel kind of ashamed of how quickly I get over it. Pretty much once they're in the hole that's the event over for me. Maybe just none of them were close enough to me.

Fourteen years ago my sixteen year-old died unexpectedly. Sadly other people's deaths seem a little more trivial now.

jamest wrote:What is there to fear about death? It's like going to sleep and not waking up.

Get busy living, or get busy dying.

Positively embrace that mantra, whatever stage of the journey you are on, and death will not haunt you, ever.

Heeeey James. i must say couple of things off topic first.
1. Chaotic chaos.
2. Order of order.
3. Absolute proof/proof of all proofs/ infinite number of proofs proving the first proof is correct ( this is for all the bookworms used to memorize others thoughts and failed in making their own, usually scientific diploma guys think that 99.99999999% is the absolute truth, but as you get closer and closer, step by step, 0,00001 becomes 0.00001, and than 0.0001 , and than 0.001. and than 0.01....and anytime soon it can become 100%. Its like saying speed of light is x, and then you have to multiply it with a universal distance, and if the number x is 0.000000001 wrong, in the end you might end up in z quadrant but you calculated b. Who watches star trek anyway.)

So now to 1 and 2. Chaos and order. Chaos doesn't exist, just like order. Only reality exists, or as my great teacher once said, only truth exists.

And absolute, doesn't exist also. If something is, it absolutely is, otherwise it's something else, or it isn't.

Basically, it only 1 0r a Zero in logical computer terms. And we all know that zero is nothing, so it doesn't exist, so there's only one. Before they called it universe, now, we try to find the smallest part of it and "we will" call that one. anyway reality, or ONE or universe is all there is.

And now...... the grand finale. God.

....Forget god, god is off topic off topic. = god is OTOT = inverse god Is TOTO? Than TOTO is inverse god. TOTO is DOG. Thats 99.9999999 truth. Proof. Poof. oof. of. f.
(Hold that thought).

James i just wanted to say i understand you and support you in your efforts. I am also an individual individual. or even more an individually individual individual. Or so on. Or not . Or TOTO. Or OTOT. Or whatever the box i am in wants to hear.



When you are you, you don't need a 3 or a two. you just need one, only you.
And the numbers slowly fade away, you are happy you are gay, and you know it's ok.
Who am i to look and say, hey that man is sad because he is gay?

TO ALL PEOPLE SECRETLY THINKING THEY CAN KNOW: to prove a simplest smallest thing in the universe you need to prove that the first proof is correct, and you can do that only with another proof proving the second proof that proves the first proof, and than another ..... (infinite loop)[$#%]

There is only one. (universal) existance

James you can mail me on umno.ploce@gmail.com
Not interested in people, only individually individual individuals....

Be cool or be cruel.

Death makes angels of us all.

romansh wrote:Back in the eighties I have memories of driving across the veld between Joey's and Pretoria.

I don't fear death or worry about it, but I am not looking forward the patch of time immediately before death.

You'd be surprised to see it now. It's virtually one big city, the whole of the province that's now "Gauteng". From the Vaal River in the south to the Northern suburbs of Pretoria on the road to what is now the provinces of North West and Limpopo, there are few places that aren't informal settlements or formal towns. It's the smallest province, but the most populous.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1112169/total-population-of-south-africa-by-province/